I posted a while back about problems in southeast Ohio.
This particular county, is making it nearly impossible to get a survey map through the county's GIS/taxmap department.
In the past two months, with many requested changes, and re-request for more re-changes, the surveyor I'm making maps for has finally gotten a few survey maps stamped for approval.
He(me?), has gotten carrap for extra spaces between words, arrows too small, arrows too large, problems with AC, as opposed to Ac., O.R. as opposed to O. R Vol, then page ... the list goes on and on, and changes.
ABSOLUTELY, every single one of ALL, these issues(with these drawings), have been and are still being(til this week), accepted when other surveyors do them ... consistently.
Maps have been turned down for the property line going through an open-circled pin ... but not for other surveyors, even when the lines are very thickly through the open circled pins, these other maps have been and are still being accepted ... even at the same time our maps are being refused ... there's so much more, and EVERY TIME a particular refusal of acceptance is made, I can find(the counties survey maps are up-to-date and on the internet), the "problem" ignored for other surveyors ... up to the present time.
So, my friend(the surveyor), had a meeting with the C. E., about a week plus ago and made note to him about all the "inconsistencies" ... what I call outright blacckballing, of my friend.
Well, this got results ... but not good results.
With no written regulations calling for ANY of the things that have been causing the problems, the C.E. has now made newer, even more stringent requirements, which, if applied to ABSOLUTELY EVERY SURVEY, that I've seen in the past few months... not a single survey would have been approved.
I suppose, the surveys that were being re-changed(hopefully for the final time), might now be completely re-evaluated under the new set of "rules", which have no basis in Ohio's laws, or the county's own written, accepted and signed rules(as required by law).
This is the future of surveying, as we know it?
10 hours working a survey, 10 hours evaluating the data, a few hours making the State Law compliant & county regulation compliant survey map, followed by another 20-30 hours of this hellish process that is being set up all through 50 states.
I'm beginning to think,why in the heeell do surveyors have licenses, when it's the demegotic, Hitler-like imbisules(sp), we call GIS personal winds up with so much unabated, unstructured power and a ready willingness to make a mockery of the entire profession?
Personally, with this kind of stuff going on, surveyors might-as-well, put their licenses back in the Cracker Jacks boxes and the boards of registration be dissolved.
Sorry ... this is just the way I've seen it for 10-15 years, and I don't see it getting better.
Why aren't the state surveyors organizations chiming in on this? I know that in Ohio, this issue has come up ... and was dropped.
No one cares or what?
> ABSOLUTELY, every single one of ALL, these issues(with these drawings), have been and are still being(til this week), accepted when other surveyors do them ... consistently.
Considering this is Ohio, my first guess would be that the reviewer is fishing for a bribe.
Laws must be different in Ohio.
Here in Maine we simply record our drawings at the Registry of Deeds, which has minimal requirements -- mylar copy, seal & signature, owner's name, etc. & the local tax mappers can use the data or not as they see fit (most use it). They can't really do anything to interfere with our work process. You've got me on the alert for attempts to change that process. Thanks.
Do one by hand and when they refuse to take it tell them you will sue them in court.
Sounds like a convoluted system where the reviewer holds back recording based on items that aren't required by any county code.
While our surveys are recorded in WA and ID there is no review process. The only survey products that require review are subdivisions.
With that said, the assessor will review new deeds and recently rejected a deed of mine because it didn't contain a chord bearing and distance in the description. She said she couldn't 'check the closure' because her software only accepts chord bearing and distance for curve checking input. I kindly explained to her that she has a software problem, not a closure problem. Not surprisingly that got me nowhere.
After a few messages and a review and approval by the county surveyor the deed was recorded. Granted, I could have put the chord brg and distance in the legal but I've always been taught that a curve is tangent unless designated otherwise and by using that criteria the chd brg and distance are unnecessary. Begrudgingly I have now changed by method of descriptions just to avoid having to spend any more time on it.
In the areas that I work in VA, we have reviews for zoning and planning code compliance, but nothing like the nightmare that you speak of. A neighboring county does want to see the words "being a parcel of record" when you are doing a retracement, but that's just because somebody recorded a plat that was by some unlicensed jack-leg. The plat was done in the 70's and recorded a few years ago and that set them off. The only thing that I've ever heard mention of was when somebody didn't get to the Virginia Library Standard of 0.10" for text height.
Good luck!
Carl
He's already been told the county will not accept his hand-writen maps.
The county claims right to all the extraneous requirements because they have the right to ensure that everyone can read the maps, and that everything is legible ... as they see it.
Of course that doesn't explain why virtually everything the refuse, they allow with other surveyors.
My boundary lines are(for this county), so extremely light that the office workers can't see the lines without a magnifying lense. I offset the lines with lines(at distances of half a foot to make the lines heavy ... as they require). Still, they have the Gaul to complain about a very thin, hazy, virtually imperceptable line, if it goes through a open circle pin.
One time, a map was turned down because the reviewer felt one arrow was slightly smaller than another ... virtually imperceptably smaller.
Another time I placed a hyphen between another surveyors name and his Surveyor's number with an extra space.
Another time, we spent a week or more trying to get the pointed ends of arrows the proper distances from what the arrows were pointing to .... One day too far, the next day too close, the next day too far ...
When county employees, who by Ohio law shouldn't even be checking a professional surveyor's work(two of the reviewers do not work for the county engineer(required by law) and are not even supervised by the C.E.), can basically and no doubt purposely wreak havoc on a professional surveyor's business by requiring any miriad of superficious, make up, nonsensical roadblocks to a professional surveyor's adherence to the state laws ... or for that matter, even the actual legally written, accepted and signed county regulations, AND all the while infringe on the rights of citizens to get their instruments recorded in a timely fashion(in adherence to the LEGAL, accepted and signed requirements(both sate AND county, then these "public officials", should be removed, for someone who really has the interest of the citizenry at heart.
I'm sure the Ohio board is fully aware of all these extraneous regulations and additionally all the supervilous nonsensical requirements floating in these idiot's heads ... but written NOWHERE.
I know of many complaints in many counties and what?, everyone's too %&$#(*$&)>?!&$ afraid to raise their meely-moused voices?
Where is Ohio's PLSO, on matters such as this?
Evidently, almost NO ONE really cares?
What a sorry lot and what a sorry respect for the profession.
If you have clear evidence of biased reviews that put your business at a disadvantage to competitors, organize it and make some exhibits of the examples of the commented on items of your maps as compared to silimar items of lesser drafting quality on the approved maps of others. Take it all to a good attorney and sue the county. Offer to drop the suit if they fire those responsible and assure that you will not be subject to unreasonable review comments in the future.
Public officials usually have immunity from civil liability for their incompetence (which leads to a lot of legitimate complaint against govt employees, but that's a different discussion), but for those in a position of authority for implementing policy (but not necessarily for setting policy) in a negligent, incompetent, or fraudulaent manner, personal and/or professional liability can attach in some jurisdictions.
Implementing policy by setting guidelines as requirements over and above law when such requirements are not authorized by local ordinance, and/or obvious inconsistent application of local requirements or guidelines could fall within that category of negligent, incompetent, or fraudulent.
But maybe Ohio is run more like a banana republic and Kent is on to something. [sarcasm]Maybe the LS you're working for is the only one to not have provided the unspoken of extra review fee that is customarily placed in an unmarked envelope and tucked into the folds of the submitted map.[/sarcasm]
John,
What about talking to the County Attorney? Maybe get him to convince his "people" (representing the county) to come back into the real world.
Carl