From the San Francisco Call newspaper. June 2, 1904.
F.J. Baker does not show up in the list of Land Surveyors on the California PELS website.
If I were the building owner, I'd just stall for 2 years. The building's going to fall down in '06 anyway.
Damn those cheap private surveyors!
"There are some architects who think they can get their surveys made cheaper by employing private surveyors ..."
I guess I didn't see in the article where it factually mentioned Mr. Baker was cheap. Only that a mistake was made. I think even an expensive public surveyor is capable of making mistakes.
What, nobody has ever split the faces of old buildings to re-establish r/w centerline? Try that and now it's only 0.44' in, as the road got narrower. Much more manageable.
How do they know who made the mistake.
An architect told them so?
sounds like a pre 1982 civil
did you check the list of civils as well?
sounds like a pre 1982 civil
No PEs before 1930.
sounds like a pre 1982 civil
When did surveying require a license in California. Here much surveying was done by Engineers, seems it was around 73 or 74 when there was a mad scramble by Engineers to obtain their Surveying license, some of them were something other than Civil Engineers. Worked with licensed Surveyors one who was a retired Boeing Hydraulics Engineer and another a Boeing Electrical Engineer, "Boeing had a downturn and let many go and sold many things, obtained a good steel Boeing desk about that time", they had obtained their Surveying licenses without the exam, many did. Don't know when the separate License was available to those taking an exam just for Surveying. The Engineering License up until 73 or 74 allowed engineers to survey under the Engineering License, maybe Tyler knows.
jud.
> How do they know who made the mistake.
>
> An architect told them so?
Your question mark could easily be reversed in the statements, so as to question who made the mistake.
Another question would be where is the property line in relation to the sidewalk. The article only states the building was 10" into the sidewalk, nothing about property lines. How many times have we seen the sidewalk in the wrong place...hmmmmmm. More times than buildings IMO.
sounds like a pre 1982 civil
California started licensing surveyors in 1891.
sounds like a pre 1982 civil
Civil PEs in California licensed prior to January 1, 1982 were authorized to practice Land Surveying. They stamped and signed their Surveys with their Civil license number. My Dad and Uncle are two that I know of although my Uncle never actually practiced Land Surveying.
Hence the common reference to Pre-82 Civils.
sounds like a pre 1982 civil
If you are registered as a CE in CA prior to Jan 1, 1982, then you are authorized to practice land surveying in California. CE's issued after that date require an LS to practice land surveying in California. The final CE number issued that is authorized to practice without an LS is 33965. The current high CE number in CA is somewhere between 78000 and 79000. That's about 44000-45000 RCE's issued since 1982.
Since surveyors were licensed in CA starting in 1891 the current high number in CA is LS 8898.
WELL THERE YOU GO AGAIN
lying on the internet AGAIN... lol. I have a copy of a portion of the 1891 LS Act, so I find it hard to believe that engineers were not duly licensed until after 1930.
If I am ignorant on this matter, then I hope you will excuse my dust...lol
Well Jim
Since we have the wayback machine going I would havew built it out wood and taken out a whole lotta fir insurance. lol
how did you come across
a copy of the San Francisco Call?
thanks for the help
WELL THERE YOU GO AGAIN
Oops, Dane you are right, I have made a grievous error.
The Professional Engineers Act originated in 1929, not 1930. See Chapter 801, Statutes of 1929 "which provided for the registration of civil engineers under a separate board." (from Page 291, Chaining the Land 2nd Edition, Bud Uzes).
The next big change came with Chapter 506, Statutes of 1933. That act repealed the 1907 Surveyor's Act. It moved licensing of Land Surveyors to the engineer's board. Land Surveyors needed to request a new LS license which cost $5. Issuance of the new license was not automatic; Land Surveyors were required to complete the application process.
I will grant you that most land surveyors prior to 1929 called themselves "Civil Engineer" but their signature line said "State Licensed Land Surveyor".
I didn't know this historical fact was controversial?
Incidentally, as an aside, the licensing process (for Land Surveyors) in 1891 was completely different from that of today.
From BPELSG Website
>A Brief History of the Board
>
>The California Legislature created the Board of Registration for Civil Engineers in 1929, following the failure of the St. Francis Dam in northern Los Angeles County. On March 12, 1928, the dam, which was located northeast of Castaic, suddenly gave way. A huge wall of water cascaded down the narrow valley of the Santa Clara River and when the water hit the town of Santa Paula, almost 50 miles downstream, the crest was still 25 feet high. The dam failure unleashed 12 billion gallons of water through the towns of Piru, Fillmore, Santa Paula, and Ventura before it reached the ocean. Lives lost numbered approximately 450; property damage was in the millions of dollars; 1,200 houses were demolished; and 10 bridges washed out. After the flood, inspection revealed that the dam was built on, and anchored to, a weak and faulted rock formation. The Legislature determined that the unregulated design of construction projects constituted a hazard to the public and passed laws to regulate civil engineering and to create the Board.
>
>Although Civil Engineers first became licensed in 1929, Land Surveyors have been licensed in California since 1891. That was the year the Legislature established the State Surveyor General. However, in 1933, the Legislature abolished that office and enacted the Professional Land Surveyors' Act. The Act expanded the Board's authority to include jurisdiction over licensing of land surveyors and regulation of surveying practices. Until then, local governments had been interpreting the laws governing subdivision maps and recordation of parcel boundaries in widely differing ways for many years. Many land surveyors ignored basic legal requirements concerning subdivision maps and survey records. Some counties allowed boundary monuments to be moved or even destroyed. Legal disputes over property boundaries cost the state and the public millions of dollars. Regulation of land surveyors brought about uniform enforcement of survey law and is in the best interests of the state and California consumers.
>
>Over the years, the Board has experienced some major changes under the provisions of the Professional Engineers Act. The number of branches of engineering regulated by the Board has increased, and the status of some of the older branches has changed. When electrical and mechanical engineering were first covered by the registration law in 1947, the law only affected the use of the titles. In 1967, the Act was amended to regulate the practice of those branches, as well as the titles. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, the Act was also amended to give the Board the right to accept additional branches of engineering into the registration program. The additional categories were for the purpose of regulating the use of the titles of those engineering branches. Between 1972 and 1975, the Board expanded the registration program to include nine additional branches of engineering under its jurisdiction. In 1986, at the Board's request, the authority to create new title registration branches was removed from the Act. In the late 1990s and early 2000s, four of the title registration branches were deregulated.
>
>In 2009, legislation was enacted that eliminated the Board for Geologists and Geophysicists and transferred all of the duties, powers, purposes, responsibilities, and jurisdiction to regulate the practices of geology and geophysics to the Board for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors. Effective January 1, 2011, the name of the Board was changed to the Board for Professional Engineers, Land Surveyors, and Geologists.
>
>
As a correction to a portion of the BPELSG history, the Surveyor General position was not established by the legislature in 1891. It was written into the California Constitution as ratified in 1849, and so existed as a constitutional position several months before CA was admitted as a State in 1850. The position of Surveyor General was eliminated by the Legislature in 1929, coincidently the same year as the 1st CE licensing. The duties of the Surveyor General were transferred to the Department of Finance. Fortunately, the legislature corrected the home for surveyor licensing in 1933 (if you think sharing a licensing board with engineers is bad, imagine having it overseen by the bean counters at DOF!), witth the remainder of the former Surveyor General's duties being transferred to the newly created Division of State Lands in 1938.
Good one! Or slid 10" away from the walk! Jp
There they go.....blaming the surveyor. I guess fingers have been pointing to the surveyor for a long time.
