Maybe the Chiropractors know something the Docs used to know. Most things take a simple laying on of hands. It used to be you went to the Doc, they listened to your complaint with a sympathetic ear, then they laid on hands with stethoscope and manual examination. Now they sit there and type it into a computer and give an air of "why are you bothering me with this complaint I don't have a hope of figuring out."
> ... without an editors input...
I sincerely doubt that, more like content dictated by the editor. Just another inane blurb to capture the advertisers.
Looks like Professional Surveyor magazine has found their Glenn Beck.
More like Charlie Sheen...
I was down in SoCal this week. All the L.A. TV news down there was All Charlie All the Time billed as "Charlie Sheen in Crisis" like that is the story of the century. They have nice looking traffic girls I will say.
It's a trade mag. We don't have real professional journals. They publish articles without too much review and most of the articles are aimed towards selling something.
Yeah, but they're free, so it works.
Most people are too cheap to pay for the Journal of Surveying Engineering, and it requires a little thinking when read.
That's right.
Land Surveyors are inveterate cheapskates for sure. Hey I'm a proud member of the club.
> It's a trade mag. We don't have real professional journals. They publish articles without too much review and most of the articles are aimed towards selling something.
>
>
> Yeah, but they're free, so it works.
>
> Most people are too cheap to pay for the Journal of Surveying Engineering, and it requires a little thinking when read.
I would much rather read the Journal of SE than the freebie trade-rags, but the subscription costs more than my yearly state society dues (+- $300, which is big $$ to me anyways). You can become a member of ASCE, and get it for $80, but then you got another set of dues to pay (+-$200). Lot of money for 4x/yr journal.
> More like Charlie Sheen...
Haha, good one.
Surveyors who belong to NSPS, AAGS or GLIS receive the professional technical journal, Surveying and Land Information Science (SALIS).
Of course, most of those who receive SALIS bitch continually that it is too abstruse, so maybe there’s no way to please surveyors.
What is Surveying Engineering?
surveying engineering
Probably better name would be geomatics engineering, course that would probably tick off surveyors too.
Aims and Scope
The Journal of Surveying Engineering covers the broad spectrum of surveying and mapping activities encountered in modern practice. It includes traditional areas such as construction surveys, control surveys, photogrammetric mapping, engineering layout, deformation measurements, precise alignment, and boundary surveying. It also includes newer development such as satellite positioning; spatial database design, quality assurance, and information management of geographic information systems; computer applications involving modeling, data structures, algorithms, and information processing; digital mapping, coordinate systems, cartographic representations, and the role of surveying engineering professionals in an information society.
It's Validation...
This article has caused a minor sensation in the GIS world, with a lot of GIS 'professionals' pointing to it and claiming "See! We really can do a surveyor's job!" It's validation.
However, the author's assertions are very reflective of the mindset in the GIS world today - the machine (or application) can do the job just fine. That's why most GIS 'professionals' I run into these days have either weak or non-existent basic skills. Many of these same people who claim they can do a surveyor's job can't tell you the difference between a coordinate system and a datum.
(I think you'd be alarmed at the number of GISP certificate holders who have no degree or formal education in earth sciences. What is scary is the number of IT personnel who have run out and gotten their GISP sheepskin based on very limited exposure to the field.)
I'm a geospatial professional (I'm old enough to have held the job title of 'Topographer') and it's plain to me that surveying is a distinct - and critical - discipline.
I've written about this issue before in this forum, and I firmly believe it is important for GIS and Survey professions to bridge the gap between them. There is a LOT of overlap in the disciplines, and each can learn a lot from the other. Having a strong survey background has certainly made me a better geospatial professional, and I'm absolutely convinced that GIS systems are the survey data delivery platforms of the future. Like it or not, GIS is here and its use is growing. Learning it and incorporating it into your business processes (where appropriate, of course) will not only make you a better survey professional, it'll probably improve your bottom line.
Let's jump on the train together and make sure it gets on the track we both want it to head down!
It's Validation...
> (I think you'd be alarmed at the number of GISP certificate holders who have no degree or formal education in earth sciences.
Not sure how this differs in the number of surveyors holding the same, or any 'formal' education for that matter.
> Like it or not, GIS is here and its use is growing. Learning it and incorporating it into your business processes (where appropriate, of course) will not only make you a better survey professional, it'll probably improve your bottom line. Let's jump on the train together and make sure it gets on the track we both want it to head down!
Agree whole-heartedly! :good:
It's Validation...
Butch,
The difference is important. In surveying there is a clearly defined education and experience requirement, leading to state recognized testing and licensing. If an Art History major wants to call himself or herself a Surveyor, and more importantly do business as a surveyor, he or she must still follow that clearly defined education, experience and licensing path.
There is no such requirement for GIS 'professionals'.
Now, I'm not implying that all GIS practitioners are charlatans. Far from it. However, when someone hands you a business card claiming to be a GIS professional you have no way of determining their level of professional development or expertise. There simply are no clearly established and enforced professional standards. The GISP program is a start, but I fear they will spend decades working to overcome the damage done during their grandfathering period, when anyone who ever took an ArcView class could get a GISP certificate.
It's Validation...
Now, I'm not implying that all GIS practitioners are charlatans. Far from it. However, when someone hands you a business card claiming to be a GIS professional you have no way of determining their level of professional development or expertise. There simply are no clearly established and enforced professional standards. The GISP program is a start, but I fear they will spend decades working to overcome the damage done during their grandfathering period, when anyone who ever took an ArcView class could get a GISP certificate.
It's not a unique problem to GIS. I've dealt with surveyors who were downright scary incompetent. Maybe they were grandfathered in also, who knows, but their license did not assure competence by any stretch.
It's still "buyer beware" no matter how you slice it.
There will be GIS cleanup work. But not decades worth. However, isn't that true of any emerging technology? Ver 2.0 is always better than Ver 1.0 and there's always a 2.0.
surveying engineering
What this describes is surveying and is ACEC/ASCE bull. What is surveying engineering?
Peter....I agree. On a side note I am somewhat embarrassed with my comments. Perhaps I should prepare a better response at a later date. I do believe I have insulted an author I know nothing about.....not good on my part.
Ya'll have a good night!
Surveyor's version:
GIS version:
GISP's......Have Code of Ethics!
And here's a quotation from Section III Part 1:
"Recognize the limitations of one’s own knowledge and skills and recognize and use the skills of other professionals as needed. This includes both those in other disciplines and GIS professionals with deeper skills in critical sub-areas of the field."
Of course GISP's have no board of registration so there is no one to report possible "violations" of ethics. As there is no enforcement, there are no ethics.
As surveyors, I think that we need a better response to this. It's not up to the public to sort this out without our input.
