Having made the change over to real estate development over the past years my observation is that surveyors are one of the most honest trades out there. I think likely due to the integrity required and critical to performing this job.
Plumbers, carpenters, HVAC people, electricians, roofers, framers, concrete people, painters....... they all lie waaaaaaay more than surveyor.
In fact they are very adept at using deception to do shoddy work, cut corners, and screw their customers, probably the very worst is the HVAC because they make a sport of screwing their customers, my honest estimate is that HVAC companies lie 85% of the time, no exaggeration there.
I see so many talented people with lives on the rocks because they lie cheat and steal regularly.
Some may get ahead in the short run however without integrity your life is screwed, it is a reflection of your values and heart, I wonder how so many fail to understand this fact. So much potential success out there but never realized due to serious character flaws.
Play to win but do it with integrity, so you can look in the mirror and sleep well at night.
BL
Ever notice how appraiser's values come out real close to relative to how much the bank wants to lend?
I agree with you. And our boundary arguments with each other are more often about the quality of the evidence we are using to establish the boundaries. I have never questioned if a surveyor is making a decision based on how much he or she is getting paid. (Not true with many of the other professions.)
Many years ago I had reason to interact with people who worked in the public relations, advertising, technical art and marketing fields. Most were direct descendants of the serpent in the apple tree in Eden. Sorry if I have insulted anyone with a relative working in one of those areas. Truthfulness is for suckers and idiots, in their opinion. Many lived their personal lives with the same lack of integrity.
> Truthfulness is for suckers and idiots, in their opinion. Many lived their personal lives with the same lack of integrity.
You nailed it there Holy Cow and its sad, the only way to deal with these folks is to always have in writing, never pay ahead.....never, ever, never.....never never never.
Even if you find good ones they change over time.
Some even use the tactic to draw in your trust....honest honest honest gothcha!
After a life dealing with mostly gentleman redneck surveyors, now I find myself surrounded by mostly animals working for me.:-X
If you gonna run a circus better be a great ringmaster !!
> Many years ago I had reason to interact with people who worked in the public relations, advertising, technical art and marketing fields.
Boy Scouts compared the Den of Vipers I worked in prior to surveying.
Careful there, James.
Though I do agree in general that ALL of that ilk, no matter their individual persuasion fit your basic description.
B-)
Thanks for this thoughtful reminder. Now being on the fringes of the real estate world, the absolute lack of integrity by nearly everyone in the room is shocking.
A friend recently closed on some investment property and related this story. At the closing table, when presented with the document to sign stating that he did not have any undeclared debts or private loans related to the property, everyone in the room broke into fits of laughter. Everyone knew that the whole thing was a 100% leveraged deal/scam, with the appraiser, bank, title agent, real estate agent, seller and buyer all in on the deal. But you're right Boundary...life is long, and lack of integrity ruins health and family.
Stephen
> Ethically they were weasels; politically they were a little too this and I'm a lot more that.
I was referring to the ethics/honesty.
I know from past posts that we disagree on some things of that nature and agree on others, but in general would get along because of our ethics/honesty.
Have a good one.
B-)
Stephen
'Assume nothing, trust no one.' Words of wisdom from one of my mentors along the way.
Stephen
> 'Assume nothing, trust no one.' Words of wisdom from one of my mentors along the way.
I see how that will cover your butt however there is something called "the speed of trust" and it is actually very efficient, can be monetized, and more profitable than trusting no one
It is possible with integrity but not practical among theifs, liars, losers, for them its gotta be the hard way.
Like I said in OP sad to see so much potential success go to waste over being dumba$$es
Stephen
I see your point. Trust is a precious commodity. Such a shame to see it squandered. I owe a great deal of my success to the trust of others and I strive daily to be worthy.
This thread reminded me of a construction super we had a few years back. Hundred thousand a year gig in charge of supervising all the construction crews. Got caught red handed redirecting a $300 dollar load of topsoil destined for a rehab job to his house for use on his lawn. Later it turned out he was also filling his personal vehicle with diesel from the equipment yard. You're fired buddy. What an a$$hat.
> Having made the change over to real estate development over the past years my observation is that surveyors are one of the most honest trades out there. I think likely due to the integrity required and critical to performing this job.
>
>
> Plumbers, carpenters, HVAC people, electricians, roofers, framers, concrete people, painters....... they all lie waaaaaaay more than surveyor.
> BL
Why compare us to tradesmen? They are not professionals. While that does not give them a free ride to lie, there is simply no comparison that needs to made here.
I'm going with Mr Lines here. Also the comments made by our Mr Sacred Cow. All good stuff.
Keep up the good work fellow surveyors and we may actually become a profession instead of a "trade". Honestly spoken of course.... and people may believe us, in spite of the sometimes bad news we present.
I think a lot about the trade/profession issue. In some ways, we are tradesmen. In other ways, we are professionals. We bridge the gap between the two.
That was my experience as well -
For over 20 years I made my living selling equipment to surveyors.
In all that time, I never had a customer complete a credit-application form (didn't even have one!) and never did any of the normal credit checking.
There were a very few bad debts, and the total dollar amount was tiny compared to what it would have cost to do the normal credit-check process for all the customers.
Back in the mid 1990s we Trimble dealers were actually commission agents - the customer purchased directly from Trimble who then paid us a commission. Trimble had a particularly invasive credit-application form that was usually the toughest part of completing a sale. Things sure became a lot easier when we got to a buy-resell arrangement and could make our own decisions about extending credit to customers.
GB
> Play to win but do it with integrity, so you can look in the mirror and sleep well at night.
>
>
> BL
Genuine THANK YOU to all the great mentors in my life that taught me this lesson, it is so obvious now how doing the opposite will erode many parts of a persons life.
Even though surveying was a ton of fun and I made a little dough that helped me move on to other things, most of all surveying and the people in it helped me understand what being a man is, people know when they are dealing with someone they can trust...my word and a handshake is golden. ( I still make sure to get a contract.)
Make the best deal possible for the company then do an excellent job period!!!
That was my experience as well -
Glenn - I remember talking to you about equipment when I started my business in April of 1990. I can't remember if I bought anything (I think I did, but can't remember what it was), but every time I see you post, I am reminded of how pleasant you were to deal with.
Stephen
> I see your point. Trust is a precious commodity. Such a shame to see it squandered. I owe a great deal of my success to the trust of others and I strive daily to be worthy.
>
> This thread reminded me of a construction super we had a few years back. Hundred thousand a year gig in charge of supervising all the construction crews. Got caught red handed redirecting a $300 dollar load of topsoil destined for a rehab job to his house for use on his lawn. Later it turned out he was also filling his personal vehicle with diesel from the equipment yard. You're fired buddy. What an a$$hat.
He wasn't a SURVEYOR!
B-)
