survey report

No fee is too small, especially if it is outside the original agreement for services.

I think all my fees are too small!:-D

I have used those type of forms for the entire time I have been in business (and prior when I worked for another firm) and have no problems with them. They take all of 5 minutes to complete and, IMHO, they do nothing more than verbalize what should already be on your plat - especially an ALTA. I don't see them adding any liability to me - in fact they may lessen liability since others now have less of an excuse for saying my survey was not clear enough or obvious enough.

I will also say that in recent years I don't get as many requests for them as I used to.

I agree with Dave. I fail to see what get so many surveyors all wound up about these. I don't think that they have even changed much in the 30 years I've been filling them out.

I use "none visible" for most such as the cemeteries question (unless there is something!), or "none known" for proposed changes, and I edit out any zoning use questions. I don't charge extra if it's in conjunction with an ALTA survey since those are fairly comprehensive and expensive already.

A survey report is a narrative of the findings. It's not something that you can put into a form. If the survey and legal description is not enough to show and describe any and all issues you've found, drop back ten and punt with the narrative.

If I have to write one, it's because it's all funked up. Don't use some dippy form. Write a narrative with all the information you used and your findings of the survey. Make them go blind with 9pt font also. Make them earn their money.

survey report>Why make a big deal

out of these questions? So what if it's just a matte of filling the slot in the folder, why make our reputation worse for making a big stink out of these questions?

Is just our habit to make things difficult for our clients?

how big of a deal is it to fill this out?

Kris,

What we were taught is a survey report deals strictly with boundary reconstruction and the reasons we did what.

The l@#%ers want something that barely even touches boundary problems unless it is fences and or other improvements protruding across the boundaries. They are actually very similar to a HUD report. Which is another waste of time and money, but I charge extra for them and am very careful how I word my answers.

B-)

survey report>Why make a big deal

It is not really Don. But I would really rethink some of the answers I saw on that one.

No and none are absolutes. Absolutes = BAD.

You might use Observed instead of Visible. Leaves more leeway if subsequent research turns something up.

Zone C is not an answer unless you tell where it comes from.

B-)

survey report>Why make a big deal

I whited out some of the information so as to not make it obvious where this was... The FEMA map reference for instance, and the boundary line agreement recording information.

I don't really have a problem with the wording ,although I do understand what you're saying about absolutes, such as No, and None... I'm just not all that worried about certifying to those things I can, and denying responsibility to those I can't certify...

I just don't think it's such a big deal to do these for the client.

Don

That form, IMHO, does absolutely nothing at all. The survey plat should address all of that information and render the form useless.

Of course you should charge for it, and you should charge a fee based on what is worth to the client. Not how long it takes. You run a business to make money, not fill out forms for free. I have a minimum charge for any document I sign. There is a reason why they want it signed and that reason is to relieve themselves or others of liability.

Don

I agree Kris, except that it's such a minor deal that for a 10K title insurance survey I'll do it for my client to complete their file.

A title report costs in excess of 10K by itself, in my business anyway.... and it is very involved and time consuming. This "report" is neither...

What does our opinion matter in this instance? Just an unwanted opinion that makes us look difficult over such a minor issue...

Our drawing and property description are our normal survey report.

A part of the license exam I remember was after finding a solution for the analytical survey test, writing a report to make a complete explanation of your process in making the decisions you did for monument location and property description.

When I do a retracement survey, I do a separate report that can be used as my statement to a court. It is what I hand to an attorney if I am ask to survey something that is under litigation. I say, this is all I know about this survey.

Last spring I finished a survey and the total was 686.08 acres.

According to what an attorney's claim, his tally of all the deeds is 818.198 acres.

I added it up before and I don't remember it to be near that much, they are off near 100 acres.

Big difference, yes.

Easy to explain, many deeds contain duplicate acreage from different grantors and partners for different ownership percentage and a one deed contains 30 acres of another deed for 100 acres. Some of the deeds contain less and except acreage.

There is also acreage taken by the state for two different highways.

Bottom line, lawyer does not understand, client does not understand. They are estate and tax lawyers and I am waiting to see how their deed forms turn out.

Never had this much trouble assuring a client that my computations are correct.

Anyway, bottom line, I must now write a report and explain why there is 686.08 total acres.

I will mull it around another week or so and get back to them.

0.02

increased liability

> >
> how big of a deal is it to fill this out?

I guess it wouldn't be the time to fill it out, but the increased liability that would bother me.

If you happened to miss an overhead utility line, an old gravestone or miss a small dump on the property, that survey report would be very clear evidence that you screwed up.

increased liability

I doubt Don is stating anything on that form that he didn't certify to already on the face of the survey plat.

increased liability

> I doubt Don is stating anything on that form that he didn't certify to already on the face of the survey plat.

Does everybody certify that there are no graves and no dumps on the face of every survey plat? The original posts talks about 40 acres. I certainly would not want to explicitly say there were no graves or no dumps on this parcel (without proper compensation, of course).

increased liability

> Does everybody certify that there are no graves and no dumps on the face of every survey plat? The original posts talks about 40 acres. I certainly would not want to explicitly say there were no graves or no dumps on this parcel (without proper compensation, of course).

Yes and no.

Does someone down the line want you to certify to that for property that is undergoing commercial financing, yes. Are they going to be satisfied with "during the conduct of field work for the survey depicted hereon, the surveyor observed no visible evidence that the subject property has been used for....", yes 99% of the time.

As to compensation, every ALTA survey is nothing more that a transfer of liablity for compensation. If you don't know all the liablity your gonna have to take on, you don't know how to price the product in the first place.

No kidding, yikes! I wish some would please wake up from whatever dream they are having.

Here you have a title company form designed to help the attorney study the map and see if it meets the contract and what is on the map that might be of concern under the contract. The reason you don't see many of these is because the attorneys bill hundreds of dollars an hour to study the map and contract and fill them out for the client. The smart attorney apparently gets the surveyor to give input for free and then bill hundreds of dollars an hour with the help of the surveyors free services.

Only a claim of total business naivetee will save you from a charge of collusion if you are doing this free for the same attorneys on a regular basis. You can bet if you ask a fee for this they will instantly tell you it's not needed. And yeah, probably try retaining another surveyor next time. It's tough being ethical and informed. Somehow we have to spread some business knowledge through the ranks.

Or if you are dealing with a decent attorney they will say yeah charge what you need to because you're the expert and I value your time that might save my ass because I don't read maps very well.

We're talking usually about multimillion dollar deals here folks. They would have been willing to pay 10's of thousands more for the survey alone. It is important. And charging an honest few hours at a few hundred bucks an hour is well worth it to check things over another time before settlement.

Personally, I would market this on the next ALTA you perform. You may well convince the attorney that they are better off paying you (as the expert) to do this for them. They will still go over it (assuming they are good attorneys) but it will save them some time if they're busy (or lose them some billable hours), but the extra insurance against their liability is a thing many of them would consider worthwhile.

Of course maybe those simple and fairly meaningless answers on the example are enough to shed their duty to look at the map at all.

I don't know exactly, but doing these free as a courtesy outside the contract and after the fact smells to high heaven from here.

past thread

If you search for surveyor inspection report on this website, there is a lot of good, useful information here.

I asked a similiar question a while back:
https://surveyorconnect.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=165538

I got some really good answers and advice.
The guys responding are really helpful and will give you some good, solid advice.

I do and will charge a little extra for the report. Not because I have already answered and certified as to the existence or non-existence of these items, it is because it is a separate report, thereby requiring my valuable time.

Take care, and be careful what you certify to. Use the proper wording as suggested.