Against my better judgment I took on a survey in the Abyss I live in. It's filed but they didn't use it, the title company wrote their own description at the request of the buyer. Anyway the new line is supposed to be where the survey shows it but until they get another survey I don't know where the line is, somewhere north of the sellers intent that I marked on the ground.
I delivered the survey to the title company the day I filed it with the county and sent them a text file of my description. I talked to the title officer for about a half hour about it (he's an old high school classmate of mine). Anyway they had already done the tile work and stuff and two days later got the deed signed and then recorded it.
Last week while in the recorders office I looked up the deed to see what they'd done. Today I told my client, the seller, that the survey and the marks in the ground are totally useless and irrelevant as the conveyance didn't use the survey. He was surprised, assumed the description had come from the survey (Yeah, if about a hundred years ago and I hadn't gone past 5th grade).
Anyway here is the survey plat which I'm sure I'll catch heck here for posting and it's content, and the conveyance deed recorded 4 days after I filed the survey.
> Against my better judgment I took on a survey in the Abyss I live in. It's filed but they didn't use it, the title company wrote their own description at the request of the buyer.
At first impression, I have a few helpful suggestions for you, Leon. Number One is to widen the line that represents the boundary of the land that is the subject of your survey. 0.75mm would be great. The second is to use symbols that distinguish between survey monuments found and survey markers set. The third is to vary the type in the tract labels so that different typography distinguishes the parcels that are the subject of the map. The fourth is to learn to condense your narratives to the informative essentials. I'm thinking a 50% compression or more. The fifth is that if you want to get to heaven you'll have to learn how to unclutter a map in a way that delivers the same information but without the Ginza Strip Effect of everything at once. A coordinate table instead of labelling survey markers with coordinates would be something to experiment with. Same thing with marker descriptions. I'm sure there are others, but those are the first impressions.
I've done coordinate tables before. I wasn't even going to put the coordinates on there but it wasn't much trouble. Maybe one surveyor in the future will ever use them so I just put in the little notes. If you do a coordinate table then you have to number or reference label the corners anyway, so I just put the Northing and Easting.
I didn't want to expand to two sheets and it all fits on one page. I'm not trying for artwork, but rather useful information. Every monument that was found or set is individually labeled so no need for a legend. What is there, three markers set and four found, isn't like there is 50 or so. Other than the section monuments there aren't any monuments in the area or the descriptions except there was one fence post called for which I just used a dot and individual label. The markers set all use the same symbol, as do the section corners and then the called for fence corner has it's own symbol.
I'm sorry it's confusing to you. If you really needed the information as a following surveyor, I'd hope you could sort it all out.
> I'm sorry it's confusing to you. If you really needed the information as a following surveyor, I'd hope you could sort it all out.
No, the point is it's a very busy map that loses it's ability to communicate in all the graphical noise. What you want to do is to produce a map that has all the information but delivers it in an orderly fashion, which means heirarchically: most important first and least important last.
I'll bet if you really had to you could condense that narrative 50% and lose nothing of importance,for example. Just saying "all the information's there for you to sort out" means you're delivering what I'd call a "Survey Kit", something that someone else could turn into a proper survey map if they wanted to.
The pen width on the boundary line is 0.70 mm.
Yeah maybe it could be better to the eye, but what I'm trying to deliver is information. If anyone ever really needs it they can get it.
The narrative is long, probably could be condensed I know. I probably did shorten it it to make it end where it did. Hey, you gotta understand the stupid bastards I'm dealing with around here when it comes to title and boundary lines. Did you read the description they hacked? Heck, a survey, any survey, is just crap to them, they don't even think they need them.
> The pen width on the boundary line is 0.70 mm.
>
> Yeah maybe it could be better to the eye, but what I'm trying to deliver is information. If anyone ever really needs it they can get it.
That's the point, the way in which information is presented is as important as the actual details. In theory, a person could generate a map that had all the information on it, but present it in such a way that it would hinder the user from actually getting the information in a useful form.
Coordinate tables are much more useful than scattering coordinates around the drawing because you can digitize coordinate tables much more readily that the hunt and peck method required when they are just smeared around on the map. If you have to annotate the coordinated points with i.d. numbers, great. You can also key the monument descriptions to those same i.d. numbers and so don't need a slew of monument descriptions scattered at seeming random across the map.
For the narrative, I'd try to capture the essentials and leave out the complaints as much as possible. I know, it's tempting to let posterity know that you were very annoyed about something, but try to make it look logical and effortless as much as possible. That's what secures reputations, not whinging.
Your points are well taken Kent but I think the information is transmitted, maybe could be better but there is not a mass audience for the plat filed. Lucky if it gets 5 looks in the next century. 50 years from now some surveyor might be glad to find the info, doubt he/she will complain about the presentation, I know I wouldn't.
As far as digitizing coordinate tables and all that. We should be able to file pdf files. The pdf files could have all sorts of attachments like spreadsheets, text files, other surveys used, kml files, pictures, deeds used, title reports, just about anything can be put into or attached inside a pdf file. No digitizing needed then, just load it up from the file.
So when you going to attack my description?
> So when you going to attack my description?
Well, I've come to assume that you folks in PLSSia have never learned how to write metes and bounds descriptions that are even half as good as those folks who practice in metes and bounds states routinely produce. It would be wrong to mention any of that or to offer helpful pointers.
You do write very good descriptions. I've taken some pointers. The title folks around here think there is something wrong when a good metes and bounds description shows up. If it's more than on paragraph and starts calling for things, has basis of bearing and other unnecessary info they just throw them out. They won't even use them if you send them the text.
As far as filing or recording pdf files which I think is the future, here is the corner record for the section corner the survey is tied to. It has quite a few attachments in it.
I think the standard one page survey plat is going the way of the Dodo bird. Probably won't be to long before you can put a file in a pdf file that loads up on the phone and takes anybody to their corners.
Of course, to do that your state would need to allow filing of surveys in the first place.
Writing a description like is in the deed would be practicing land surveying in my state. If I worked In a state where it isn't I would advise the seller to be sure not to sign a deed that did not include the survey description they ordered. Even with the alternate description I don't think the survey is useless.
Just to give you some feedback, there's a spelling error in that wall of text on the left side of the plat. Fourth paragraph "...fences that probably where built from some survey or measurement..." You probably meant to say "...fences that probably were built..."
Wrong word. To late to fix it now it's a public record. Seems like you can never catch them all. One of the downsides to working solo is no second review. Thanks.
> .....Seems like you can never catch them all. One of the downsides to working solo is no second review......
IT'S A GOOD THING WE HAVE PEOPLE HERE THAT WILL COVER THAT FOR US...;-)
Pardon my confusion but I took this thread as a discussion of how a competent survey (leaving aesthetic and artistic considerations aside) could be delivered to a client and then be ignored in the ensuing conveyance. The deed posted would never remotely qualify to be recorded here.
You indicated that this survey is in the abyss you live in..does that mean you own this property??
I hate that, when I put so much work into a plat and then it gets totally ignored. I guess if you got paid it's all good. At minimum it is a survey you probably don't have to worry much about.
No I don't own it. I was referring to my county and the traditional very poor land descriptions I deal with if I do a survey.
> I guess if you got paid it's all good
But now some deed staker comes along and sets new pins per the deed, an adjoiner builds, and a few years later YOU have to deal with it. You'll wish somebody did more than get paid for it.
I agree Carl! Typical everyone is caught up in the minutiae! Great job Leon , composing your survey and narrative. I can see it now; the city starts building its sports park and will want the finished grade, street improvements and fixed works built to a hundredth of a foot compared to the design engineer’s control. They will probably even make a contractor tear out some concrete that is not within some crazy tolerance. All this, while the property they just bought was purchased with a faulty deed. At least your survey will live in the record and maybe someday it will come to light, that a surveyor, tried to call attention to all the problems with the boundaries and deeds, but they continued to be perpetuated by the powers to be. Good job! My 2 cents, Jp
