I do a lot of topo surveys that require offsets, mostly left/right. On the platforms I've used (Allegro CX and Surveyor+), SurvCE provides separate entry boxes for in/out, left/right and up/down, and uses radio buttons to specify whether the value in, for example, the left/right box is to be interpreted as left or right. But I hate using a stylus, so I rely on the alt, tab, cursor and enter keys to navigate the interface whenever possible.
When entering the offset screen, the cursor defaults to the in/out box, but pressing alt-L or alt-R will jump to the left/right box with the appropriate radio button checked. That's the way I've been navigating that screen for years now. However, a couple of days ago I realized that if I press enter when entering the offset screen, the cursor moves to the left/right box with the R button checked, ready for a right offset. That saved a keystroke, so I started doing that for right offsets. But then I remembered from my TDS days that a negative right offset equals a left offset, so for left offsets I started hitting enter to get to the left/right box, then entering the offset as a negative. I did that all day, and then on another job the next day.
Today I was drafting one of those jobs and some shots didn't look right. So I set up the gun and did a test. Sure as shootin', SurvCE ignores the minus sign in front of an offset distance in the offset screen.
Now I have to figure out which offsets were which. Arrrrrrgh! Fortunately, I always default to a left offset because I have the data collector mounted on the right side of the pole, so I can get closer on the left side. But I'll have to decide if any of those offset shots are critical enough to warrant a return to the site(s), and that's not something I'm looking forward to.
There's nothing like learning the hard way...
The raw data that shows each shot and the offset used doesn't show the - sign? I know it ignores it when calculating but I figure it would at least put whatever was entered in the box into the raw data.
Ps I know nothing of Carleson ce. I used survey pro. But might be switching soon
Rich., post: 364471, member: 10450 wrote: The raw data that shows each shot and the offset used doesn't show the - sign?
Nope. Here's the raw data from one that was shot as a "minus right" offset (entered as -0.35 in the offset screen):
[pre]SS,OP3924,FP4169,AR95.5028,ZE91.3539,SD40.149738,--BOLLARD
--Measured Offset: AR96.2027,ZE91.3539,SD40.1482
--Right Offset 0.3500 (Relative Point Facing Instrument)[/pre]
Because the bollard was to my left (looking at the robot) of the rod, the angle right of the sideshot should have been larger than the angle to the rod, but 'taint so.
The offset routine is one that has gotten more convoluted across multiple platforms in the dumbing down of field survey software.
party chef, post: 364stoember: 98 wrote: The offset routine is one that has gotten more convoluted across multiple platforms in the dumbing down of field survey software.
Give Topcon Magnet a try. It stores all raw data and the manual entry can be changed anytime. Yes in the office or in the office you can change the manual entry, then recompute the data. Great feature.
leegreen, post: 364481, member: 2332 wrote: Yes in the office or in the office you can change the manual entry, then recompute the data.
Recomputing isn't a problem, it's knowing what to recompute. Since SurvCE didn't record what I actually entered, I'm going to have to do some sleuthing.
We always add a note to our offset shots to avoid this type of error. It is sort of a checks and balance to our survey data.
james crow, post: 364498, member: 7264 wrote: We always add a note to our offset shots to avoid this type of error.
As much as I try to limit keystrokes, adding "LO" or "RO" to my descriptions might not be a bad idea.
Maybe I can help. Since some time i've work on GNSS Reports application (in march we have 2 year anniversary).
My app supports SurvCE RW5 format and offsets too. Last releases has additional module for offset analysis so I can load your file to app and check and export it for desired format. You can send me RW5 file by mail ( @skyraster.com">office@skyraster.com ).
kind regards
Mark
Jim Frame, post: 364446, member: 10 wrote:
Now I have to figure out which offsets were which. Arrrrrrgh! Fortunately, I always default to a left offset because I have the data collector mounted on the right side of the pole, so I can get closer on the left side. But I'll have to decide if any of those offset shots are critical enough to warrant a return to the site(s), and that's not something I'm looking forward to.There's nothing like learning the hard way...
skyraster, post: 364636, member: 8798 wrote: Maybe I can help.
In this case, I'm afraid not. It's not a question of globally massaging the data -- I understand what's there and how to process it, even change the offset when I need to. What I'm having to muscle through is looking at every L/R offset shot on the map, seeing which control point it was shot from, and deciding whether I was standing to the left or right of the object when it was shot.
Jim Frame, post: 364484, member: 10 wrote: Since SurvCE didn't record what I actually entered,
THIS is a huge flaw throughout SURVCE. Raw data should record the raw data. Period. I spent lots of time trying to decipher a bug in their program due to the fact that they don't record what was measured and what was entered. Seems basic to me. Between that and their feeble GPS routines I was glad to move away from their field software. However, I love their office routines. Go figure, almost like they were written by different people...
I see now. All your offsets are calculated properly (by math) but some of them are not stored properly (as you want to). So in fact analysis of calculation won't give us errors and extra information to help - only you know which offset was L/R because you make this particular survey.
Tiring work, indeed. Now I see advantages of COGO module that is based on simple case (calculation form with easy access to map to check results) instead of left-right (or even from start/from end) way which is typically used in many field software.
Good luck.
Jim Frame, post: 364647, member: 10 wrote: In this case, I'm afraid not. It's not a question of globally massaging the data -- I understand what's there and how to process it, even change the offset when I need to. What I'm having to muscle through is looking at every L/R offset shot on the map, seeing which control point it was shot from, and deciding whether I was standing to the left or right of the object when it was shot.
Edward Reading, post: 364657, member: 132 wrote: THIS is a huge flaw throughout SURVCE. Raw data should record the raw data. Period. I spent lots of time trying to decipher a bug in their program due to the fact that they don't record what was measured and what was entered. Seems basic to me. Between that and their feeble GPS routines I was glad to move away from their field software. However, I love their office routines. Go figure, almost like they were written by different people...
Wish I'd have read this before I dropped some $$$ on their field stuff. Haven't been real happy with them yet. Oh, and their office stuff ain't that great either...
This all sounds like a lot more heartache and grief than simply toggling to "L" would be.
WGD, post: 364870, member: 8001 wrote: This all sounds like a lot more heartache and grief than simply toggling to "L" would be.
Inasmuch as using the minus sign with the offset value currently doesn't work, I'm inclined to agree. If it *did* work, then I think I'd go back to using it.
Yeah, I don't get that either. My first response was going to be "enter it as minus" then I read further. I'm just now learning SurvCE after many moons of TDS use. I really like it so far, but I've seen a few things already that I feel TDS does much better (most are in stakeout so I may be able to play with configuration settings and fix my issues.....).
OK what the heck is with Carlson and the minus sign? Looks like the office software (with ICad) does the same thing. If I wanted to extend a line on a certain direction, I would click on the endpoint, choose angle, and click on the opposite end of the line. Entering a negative direction would extend the line a certain distance. Now it looks like it just ignores the minus sign.
Jim Frame, post: 364446, member: 10 wrote: I do a lot of topo surveys that require offsets, mostly left/right. On the platforms I've used (Allegro CX and Surveyor+), SurvCE provides separate entry boxes for in/out, left/right and up/down, and uses radio buttons to specify whether the value in, for example, the left/right box is to be interpreted as left or right. But I hate using a stylus, so I rely on the alt, tab, cursor and enter keys to navigate the interface whenever possible.
When entering the offset screen, the cursor defaults to the in/out box, but pressing alt-L or alt-R will jump to the left/right box with the appropriate radio button checked. That's the way I've been navigating that screen for years now. However, a couple of days ago I realized that if I press enter when entering the offset screen, the cursor moves to the left/right box with the R button checked, ready for a right offset. That saved a keystroke, so I started doing that for right offsets. But then I remembered from my TDS days that a negative right offset equals a left offset, so for left offsets I started hitting enter to get to the left/right box, then entering the offset as a negative. I did that all day, and then on another job the next day.
Today I was drafting one of those jobs and some shots didn't look right. So I set up the gun and did a test. Sure as shootin', SurvCE ignores the minus sign in front of an offset distance in the offset screen.
Now I have to figure out which offsets were which. Arrrrrrgh! Fortunately, I always default to a left offset because I have the data collector mounted on the right side of the pole, so I can get closer on the left side. But I'll have to decide if any of those offset shots are critical enough to warrant a return to the site(s), and that's not something I'm looking forward to.
There's nothing like learning the hard way...
Hi Jim,
I stumbled upon this post a few days ago, and we got this fixed for you. It just barely missed the cut for SurvCE 5.0, but if you email me at [email protected], I'll send you a patch as soon as we have one so you can try it out. We're always looking for ways to make surveying just a little bit more efficient, so your feedback is much appreciated.
Sarah Winter
Carlson Software
Hi Sarah,
If you monitor this board regularly, you'll get LOTS of feedback on SurvCE, especially if we users know you're watching. So, here's mine - how about enabling pinch zoom on the map screen for touch sensitive collectors?
Also, would really like to see a QWERTY soft keyboard - Wish I had all the time back that I've spent hunting for the darned "L" 😉
Thanks!
SS
Don't get me started...all my issues would eat up the bandwidth on this site...