A few months ago, a friend asked me to update his boundary survey. Having some discussions with his neighbor about landscape issues, mowing, etc. "no big deal"... fast forward to yesterday, a call from him for help, the situation is deteriorating.
I stop by and get the full story. Thinking I'll be able to explain the situation and defuse the problem, I start looking for the corners. Talk to the neighbor, give him my card..explain what I'm doing. Then things get a little tense, because I find corners where neither of them thought they were, to the benefit of my friend.
So, I take them aside, and basically tell them that they should hire a different surveyor. I want to avoid the appearance of conflict of interests. Usually, I'm able to talk to conflicting parties and explain things, but I'm worried these neighbors are off the chart ticked off. There really isn't any true boundary issues, just an owner understanding issue. (probably 95% of all boundary disputes)
I feel pretty good about the way I handled it, but I thought I'd throw it out here to see if anyone had a different idea...
Hindsight being 20/20, I would have told him to hire someone else right away, but his situation then wasn't as messed up.
It sounds like you did the right thing. Sometimes emotions are so strong that no amount of logic and/or proof will make things acceptable. Getting a totally disassociated party(ies) will at least assure both neighbors that the evidence is "real" and the corners are where they are supposed to be.
The other Andy
you did the right thing
i had one where i was working for my friend's neighbor.
his occupation had meandered over the line by several feet. he removed the stakes to hide this encroachment from his neighbor.
she had seen the stakes and she wanted the stakes back. i saw where things were heading so i contacted Don Poole (FoggyIdea), sent him my base information and asked him to give her a good price. she is literally a starving artist.
Don set the stakes and my client pulled them. The police were called. I think the holes were still there so he put the stakes back (don't care, don't remember) I really just recall him telling me that he thought I noticed the stakes missing and went back out to replace them.
then he would not pay my bill. we sent him to collections and got the money. apparently his mailbox had been knocked over several times and he did not get any of the bills.
I would have had them both together, visited each pin and explained what and why you were able to find it. I then would have told them that it would require more field research to verify that they were a reasonable fit with the surrounding tracts. Then explained that because of friendship you felt that the appearance of a conflict of interest might be a consideration for your continuing any further at that time, but with both of their approvals you would and they can call you if that is their wishes, Drop a few names of other surveyors they could contact and then leave. I would not bill for the time spent so far unless you finished the job. But let them make that choice mutually. That will get them working together and they may choose to have you finish the project or may just do some rough measuring themselves and choose to accept the found monuments. May never get any work from them but there is a good chance your name will be mentioned if they get into a conservation with others about a survey.
That is probably how I would do it.
jud
I think you did the proper thing by recusing yourself. Honestly, I find it difficult to work for friends. There are plenty of great surveyors I know around here that I can recommend, so I can stay out of things in case the situation sours such as your's did.
I actually am going to meet a buddy of mine tomorrow to look at his boundary, but only because I know every corner in the subdivision is bounded.
-V
Aw hell Andy, I thought you were starting to bitch about the weather already! 😉
Seriously though, I would have done exactly as you.
Have a great week!
Agree in principle totally, Jud, but frankly even that level of discussion was out of the question. A first for me, in that I'm usually pretty good at talking. They called a guy I mentioned, a very good surveyor and competitor. Apparently, his firm has surveyed both parcels previously.
Who me ? Complain? Haha. Full blown blow torch already!! Might be a crazy hurricane season.
Yep, it's 8:30 am and its already 89°...
Can't wait for July!
>... I want to avoid the appearance of conflict of interests.
Having the appearance of, and actually engaging in a conflict of interest are two different things. Does this imply that you would never survey your own land? Taking your comments at face value: the fact that one adjoiner hired you on any given job could give the appearance of being a conflict of interest.
I have done a lot of surveying for friends and for long-time clients who I often think of as friends. I see no problem assuming I keep my nose clean and do defensible work. If the neighbors want to accuse me of inappropriate actions than by all means, I will give them the number and website to the BOR and let them know they are more than welcome to pay for a second opinion out of their own pocket, if they so choose.
I do agree that the situation might require an extra bit of humble on your part but as far as I see it, this is a great opportunity to be a good friend who will come through in a pinch. This may well become a situation that has the potential to escalate into something expensive and for which he might get bad advice or direction from another surveyor (hopefully not).
I was always taught that it was a given that you would not be party to an ACTUAL conflict of interests. The standard of care, in my opinion, is more stringent.
If this was a just a situation of two neighbors who did not have any idea where the boundary was, I would do the work and walk them both through it. As I said, this situation has already escalated to the point where even though I would, of course, do a complete and thorough survey, the animosity would almost guarantee trouble for my friend.
The appearance of a conflict of interest is to be avoided. Does not matter how innocent you are or how well you can defend your work. If you choose to go ahead in spite of the chance that an accusation of conflict of interest causes you to need to defend yourself, your client will also be needing to defend himself and a court may require another surveyor to come in and resurvey the land at your clients expense. You do you client a disservice to do work for him, when an accusation could be made about your interest effecting the outcome of your work. A prudent man, with his clients interest in the forefront, avoids such things. That is just part of protecting the public required in some States and is in their ethics rules.
jud
well said, Jud.
> The appearance of a conflict of interest is to be avoided. Does not matter how innocent you are or how well you can defend your work. If you choose to go ahead in spite of the chance that an accusation of conflict of interest causes you to need to defend yourself, your client will also be needing to defend himself and a court may require another surveyor to come in and resurvey the land at your clients expense. You do you client a disservice to do work for him, when an accusation could be made about your interest effecting the outcome of your work. A prudent man, with his clients interest in the forefront, avoids such things. That is just part of protecting the public required in some States and is in their ethics rules.
> jud
I agree that a appearance of CoI should be avoided but this is a straw man argument because there is no such thing taking place unless you have a vested interest in the outcome or there is a potential for confidentiality between parties to come into play. Seldom does CoI become a factor in surveying matters. I disagree when you state that it does not matter how innocent or how defensible the work is. These are facts of law if you are innocent and do good work. Again I bring the point of surveying one's own property: other than not wanting to open a potential can of worms (thus avoiding the prospect all together) I think few of us would engage another firm to do the work. Being a prudent man, I would not hesitate to engage the work knowing that the neighbor`s opinion of wrongful execution will probably arise, not due to a friend being involved but because there is an appearance that they are losing property.
Being a prudent man, i would provide defensible work to my `client` and provide the evidence to all parties involved. Hostile neighbors create reasons to justify their hostilities when they are cornered. I say bring it...let me be the buffer to absorb those hostilities; this is often par for the work.. Besides the idea that I seriously doubt the neighbors would find an attorney who would entertain the prospective embarrassment by going after a licensed surveyor for CoI. It is also unlikely that the attorney would question the survey work and will instead look for remedy for their client in a more appropriate manner. I believe there is very little risk. But then again, it all comes down to comfort level and i'd rather share a beer and bbq over conversation of solutions and assistance I provided rather than as a disinterested 3rd party non-participant wherein my opinion is to be discounted outright. But hey, if you are not comfortable p, then move on and remind all your other friends and family that you will gladly recommend a surveyor should their need arise. I say stand tall and put on the pants your license lets you wear. No insult intended in this dialogue, just a statement of my position.
Tangent,
The point is why give my friend's adversary an easy point of attack? I'd be hurting them in the long run to have to spend time and money defending me at that point.
Nice of you to insult me, then claim you mean no insult. Stay classy.