I dislike that part of my income that is derived from assisting bureaucracies in crushing the last bits of freedom possessed by my fellow landowning citizens. Much of this regret comes from having lived longer and in a far less regulated environment than many who participate here. You can't blame people for what they view as "normal" simply because that is the life they were forced to endure to this point. But, it is sad to witness the constant deterioration of individual capabilities by forces intent on ruling everyone else's lives.
The percentage of our population who actually own real estate has shrunk over the decades tremendously. Thus the percentage those who don't, but enjoy dictating what others must do, has grown tremendously. It is understandable that those who have never experienced the benefits (and costs) of real estate ownership have no concept of why those who do own real estate resent the unneeded intrusions and limitations. It's a bit like people who have never raised children dictating EVERYTHING about the perfect method of raising a child. If you haven't lived it, you don't know **** about it.
Those who were raised in environments where everything is controlled by some remote power and have never had to stand on their own two feet are incapable of understanding the resentment. But, since that fraction of the population grows rapidly each year, it increases the feeling of urgency to repel any new categories of control.
I realize I'm a dinosaur in some people's minds. I was five before we had a TV set in the house and it only was served by two stations. I was eleven before we connected to a public water supply and had indoor plumbing connected to a septic tank system that replaced the two-holer beyond the first chicken house. I was twelve before a paved road was at the end of our driveway. I was thirteen before I attended a school building with indoor plumbing and rest rooms. My first school served an area of maybe eight square miles and 25 kids. The families in that small rural area paid nearly the entire cost of running the school with practically no State or Federal funding as was common across the rural areas of the state.
Others, even in those same years, had ten thousand people and a couple thousand school kids within the same geographic limits with every road being paved and supported by sidewalks, drainage structures and every utility possible already connected to the residences. Someone else controlled every aspect of their lives. The parents paid taxes instead of being directly committed to the operation of all those support systems. They weren't THEIR support systems, they were THE support system.
It seems like nearly every day I receive a call to do a survey because some bureaucratic mental midget has dictated some need for that to occur rather than the client wanting it done simply because it would be a reasonable thing to do. Common sense is no longer deemed common. Thus, we, as surveyors, are viewed as part of the evil, expensive, roadblocks to progress instead of as helpful providers of important information.
What you do on your property affects everyone else whether you want to admit that or not.
Rural folks often think they are completely independent and stand alone on their own, this is simply not the case.
I can relate. I often lament the changes I've seen over the years...few of which have been good.
Although I reside in a small house in the older part of town I also have a nice piece of nowhere in the corner of an adjacent county. At my "hole-in-the-wall" hideout I maintain a primitive cabin where my soul may "recharge". I've had friends and family voice their opinion about the frivolity of my "den", but it's really a necessity for my mental well-being.
Recently (last ten years) the area was annexed into the Oklahoma City Limits. That just means if your place burns down the Oklahoma City Fire Department might make it out the next day and sift the ashes for some cause so they can enter the data into some record keeping. OKC also requires a building permit for any permanent structures..screw 'em. Other than that the possums and coyotes and I still feel the peace.
Last spring I had a small brush pile I was burning. Someone nearby smelled smoke, called someone, and "Code Enforcement" eventually came wandering up the narrow drive. He was a nice enough fella and saw I was actually being careful, but I had failed to obtain a "burn permit". We sat and chatted for about one beer and he let me in on a little "secret". If I'm burning trash or brush, I need a permit. If I'm "cooking" no permit is required. At his suggestion I keep a pack of wienies, mustard and bread prominently visible every time I need to burn something...;)
If someone wants to rule you with words and technicalities, fight them with the same.
Dave Karoly, post: 407952, member: 94 wrote: What you do on your property affects everyone else whether you want to admit that or not.
Rural folks often think they are completely independent and stand alone on their own, this is simply not the case.
Dave, I respect your opinion. It may be considered a reality where you're at, but around here it's called foolish and bein' nosey.
paden cash, post: 407954, member: 20 wrote: Dave, I respect your opinion. It may be considered a reality where you're at, but around here it's called foolish and bein' nosey.
I don't necessarily disagree that there isn't foolishness of burdensome regulations but there is justification for some regulations so we can all peacefully live together.
The problem here is decades of suppression of housing density through zoning has led to skyrocketing housing prices which is a huge problem here.
It is nostalgic to look through old filed surveys where the subdivision process was much simpler.
Holy Cow, post: 407940, member: 50 wrote: I dislike that part of my income that is derived from assisting bureaucracies in crushing the last bits of freedom possessed by my fellow landowning citizens. Much of this regret comes from having lived longer and in a far less regulated environment than many who participate here. You can't blame people for what they view as "normal" simply because that is the life they were forced to endure to this point. But, it is sad to witness the constant deterioration of individual capabilities by forces intent on ruling everyone else's lives.
The percentage of our population who actually own real estate has shrunk over the decades tremendously. Thus the percentage those who don't, but enjoy dictating what others must do, has grown tremendously. It is understandable that those who have never experienced the benefits (and costs) of real estate ownership have no concept of why those who do own real estate resent the unneeded intrusions and limitations. It's a bit like people who have never raised children dictating EVERYTHING about the perfect method of raising a child. If you haven't lived it, you don't know **** about it.
Those who were raised in environments where everything is controlled by some remote power and have never had to stand on their own two feet are incapable of understanding the resentment. But, since that fraction of the population grows rapidly each year, it increases the feeling of urgency to repel any new categories of control.
I realize I'm a dinosaur in some people's minds. I was five before we had a TV set in the house and it only was served by two stations. I was eleven before we connected to a public water supply and had indoor plumbing connected to a septic tank system that replaced the two-holer beyond the first chicken house. I was twelve before a paved road was at the end of our driveway. I was thirteen before I attended a school building with indoor plumbing and rest rooms. My first school served an area of maybe eight square miles and 25 kids. The families in that small rural area paid nearly the entire cost of running the school with practically no State or Federal funding as was common across the rural areas of the state.
Others, even in those same years, had ten thousand people and a couple thousand school kids within the same geographic limits with every road being paved and supported by sidewalks, drainage structures and every utility possible already connected to the residences. Someone else controlled every aspect of their lives. The parents paid taxes instead of being directly committed to the operation of all those support systems. They weren't THEIR support systems, they were THE support system.
It seems like nearly every day I receive a call to do a survey because some bureaucratic mental midget has dictated some need for that to occur rather than the client wanting it done simply because it would be a reasonable thing to do. Common sense is no longer deemed common. Thus, we, as surveyors, are viewed as part of the evil, expensive, roadblocks to progress instead of as helpful providers of important information.
Most eloquently put HC.
I too am of such a vintage (a 1943 special) that is frustrated by the lack of the use of the "Sixth Sense" (and the festoons of paper argued over by persons who have yet to get out of short pants).
Remaining Your Obedient Servant,
TNAI
I understand. I did "Plan Review" for a couple of local counties for a while. It got to the point where they had to add notes to subdivision plats that stated essentially "This is a rural area. Farming may produce unpleasant odors. They were here first, get over it." People had been raising chickens for generations but an upscale subdivision is built next door and the county fields MANY calls about the aroma of chicken manure.
Andy
The Hotdogs and mustard crack me up. I was just talking with my small city about sheds. They say 10ft side and rear setback. Drive home and notice 2 out of 30 homes have sheds right on property lines. My dilemma is do I obey the cities rules or do as the other do and ignore them?
For the record a variance was allowed for primary homes to have a 5ft side setback.
Dave Karoly, post: 407955, member: 94 wrote: I don't necessarily disagree that there isn't foolishness of burdensome regulations but there is justification for some regulations so we can all peacefully live together.
The problem here is decades of suppression of housing density through zoning has led to skyrocketing housing prices which is a huge problem here.
It is nostalgic to look through old filed surveys where the subdivision process was much simpler.
Those are the necessities of a population that grows closer and closer in proximity to one another. I agree where you can throw a rock and break a window in your neighbor's house there needs to be rules. And when our homesteads are not large enough to actually sustain life in a healthy manner the rules need to be rigid and dignified. I believe those ordinance not only protect neighbors, they protect all interests.
What I am adverse to is a burden of rules that weren't created to protect property or health, but to generate revenues. There is actually an ordinance that says I can't drop my drawers and poop in the middle of my 40 acres. God designed me to poop. Trying to pass ordinances that are contrary to God's design seems a little ludicrous. I'm ok with not being able to poop on my neighbor's porch, I can understand that rule. Telling me I need a $10k system to poop in my own woods is a crime by design for which only a few may profit. My neighbor has horses...you ought to see what they do every day, right out in plain sight.
Makes my little pile look insignificant.
A common term used to blame the creator of displeasure or discomfort is THEY. THEY are to blame. The smaller the network involved in the control issue, the easier it is to determine who THEY really are. Once you know who THEY are, you can begin a fight that, at least, has some hope of succeeding.
The little two-room school I mentioned above had three adults serving as THEY (the school board). Everyone knew each of those three people very well and those three people knew everyone else very well. Decisions were fairly simple to make because there was so much commonality among the residents of that small area. It didn't matter much who was currently a member of THEY because next year or the year after YOU might become a member of THEY whether you really wanted to or not.
As we transitioned to a merger of three little schools into one the identification of who precisely was THEY became a bit more challenging but not too bad. There was still a great deal of commonality of interests and concerns among the residents of this larger area. There was less chance that YOU might become part of THEY but it was still a definite possibility.
The next school merger threw that right out the door. One corner of the new school district was a 50 mile drive from the far corner. Although a high percentage of the citizens still had a great deal in common there was a significant fraction that was dissimilar. People did not know everyone else, only a small fraction of the total. THEY became a somewhat remote group with bitter struggles to replace various members of THEY with someone else more familiar to the specific citizen seeking change. Only those with some "political" skills became part of THEY.
Then I experienced the "MEGA-THEY" of a State-wide school system with those controlling members being close political associates of whomever was in power at the top of the political heap. The MEGA-THEY had zero connection to the students and their families.
It is the MEGA-THEY world that was written about in 1984 as a warning that has yet to be heeded by intelligent people.
It is easy to inflict pain on those you don't know.
paden cash, post: 407963, member: 20 wrote: Those are the necessities of a population that grows closer and closer in proximity to one another. I agree where you can throw a rock and break a window in your neighbor's house there needs to be rules. And when our homesteads are not large enough to actually sustain life in a healthy manner the rules need to be rigid and dignified. I believe those ordinance not only protect neighbors, they protect all interests.
What I am adverse to is a burden of rules that weren't created to protect property or health, but to generate revenues. There is actually an ordinance that says I can't drop my drawers and poop in the middle of my 40 acres. God designed me to poop. Trying to pass ordinances that are contrary to God's design seems a little ludicrous. I'm ok with not being able to poop on my neighbor's porch, I can understand that rule. Telling me I need a $10k system to poop in my own woods is a crime by design for which only a few may profit. My neighbor has horses...you ought to see what they do every day, right out in plain sight.
Makes my little pile look insignificant.
Sacramento County is in an air quality district. We can't burn on cold foggy days because particulates from wood smoke are bad for air quality trapped under the valley temperature inversion. Cooking fires are an exception as well as wood fire being your sole source of heat. Neighboring Roseville in Placer County is in the valley but not in the air district so they can burn all they want.
When I first moved here the rice farmers would fill the valley with smoke every fall burning the rice stubble, that has been phased out now. The farmers and government got together and figured it out.
Wow. HC, I'm in full agreement with your sentiments.
Need new planet. Start over!
Jon Collins, post: 407962, member: 11135 wrote: I was just talking with my small city about sheds. They say 10ft side and rear setback.
We have the same requirement where I live. When my son was little I wanted to build a play structure for him, and my design was about 6'x6' by 12' high, a 2-story affair with a roof over the upper platform -- in other words, much more massive than most garden sheds. I went to the building department to find out what kind of permit I needed and what setbacks I had to observe, and was surprised to learn that the answer to both questions was "none." I set it back 10 feet anyway, but my point is that I could build a "play structure" that would conveniently hold garden tools and not have to observe any setbacks at all. Sort of like calling a burning brush pile a "cooking fire."
Nate The Surveyor, post: 407983, member: 291 wrote: Wow. HC, I'm in full agreement with your sentiments.
Need new planet. Start over!
Nate,
Study after study repeatedly warns us of species population number drops after exponential growth. I don't think humans are immune to the rules of the planet. At some point in time we will 'start over'. How and when? GOK.
Now if you'll excuse me I need to clean a couple of my ARs....;)
Well, I am all worked up. "As arrows in the hands of the mighty". I'm scheduled to be a grandpa!!!
I'm awestruck.
YEAH!
N
Nate The Surveyor, post: 407988, member: 291 wrote: ... I'm scheduled to be a grandpa!!!...I'm awestruck.
YEAH! N
No kidding? Well congrats. Being a Grandpa is a special task endowed to some. Health and Peace to all yours there in Caddo Gap.
Absolutely I should be able to do what I want with my own land. Nobody should have any say about me taking my 100 acres and subdividing a shantytown in one corner with trailer homes stacked 5 tall on 200 sq ft lots and 8 ' wide mud streets with the crapper out of each trailer spitting down the backside of those below it and then out to the mud streets. Next to it I'll put a hydraulic strip mine and smelter. On another corner I'll let the oldest boy set up the nuclear fusion and honey oil lab he's been yapping about.
That's right, who needs all that gubmint regulation? Not me.
Great post, Cow. Sometimes when you get the blues, humor hint: SNL skit The Bubble has a way of taking the edge off of it.
