tells you that the pin you are tying may be off a little bit. It's an old pipe that's identical to al the others called for in the subdivision. He says that a few years back they were putting in a water service and he saw it would be destroyed, so he set 2 stakes out and pulled the pin, then put it back when the work was done.
The numbers say it's within 0.06' of calc position, measurements between other nearby undisturbed pipes vary from 0.2' short to 0.10' long.
Do you hold it? do you make a note on your plat?
btw, I shot D & R sets to it 😉
sounds like someone did the responsible thing and perpetuated the original position to me.
> Do you hold it? do you make a note on your plat?
Well, for starters, you don't identify it as an original, undisturbed monument. You describe it in the way that the landowner did, i.e. the original monument that had been removed and replaced with methods that sounded as if they ought to have put it within 0.16 ft. (or whatever) of its original position. You knew that.
> tells you that the pin you are tying may be off a little bit. It's an old pipe that's identical to al the others called for in the subdivision. He says that a few years back they were putting in a water service and he saw it would be destroyed, so he set 2 stakes out and pulled the pin, then put it back when the work was done.
>
> The numbers say it's within 0.06' of calc position, measurements between other nearby undisturbed pipes vary from 0.2' short to 0.10' long.
>
> Do you hold it? do you make a note on your plat?
>
> btw, I shot D & R sets to it 😉
Hold it and note the circumstances..
Here is a repeat of a story I posted maybe 7 years ago on the old board.
Back in the days of the depression there was an orginization called "WPA".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration
One of the jobs WPA created was the perpetuation of the original wood stake corners of portions of the Beverly Hills Tract. The gents who were doing this work were instructed to go to each lot corner and measure 2 feet from the stake and set a lead/nail in the sidewalk. Then pull another 2 feet and set another lead/nail in the walk, attempting to have a 90° from these 2 swing ties and the 2" x 2" stake.
I know that not every 2 ft swing tie was set with the utmost care, but when surveyors who know the reason behind two lead/nails at one lot corner, the 2 foot ties are held as absolute being the 'best evidence' of the location of the original lot corner.
Your situation is not much different except you can question the gent that tied out and reset the pipe as to his methods. Did he measure to the center of his ties and then hook a hand tape on the back edge of his ties to reset the pipe...stuff like that, but there is no reason to doubt his word so just use it as the 'best evidence' of that one corner.
Actually Kent, Rankin said it was within 0.06' of it's calculated position. The original position is unknown.
I'm sure a lot of pins have been monkeyed with by laypeople. In this case, the landowner actually admitted it.
Let's pretend it goes to court.
Judge "And why did you honor this point?"
"Your Honor,I have parol evidence from the land owner on the situation and his method to restore the point using witness stakes before the mark was disturbed"
Judge "And how do you protect the location in a case where you know a point would be destoyed?"
"Your Honor, In the same fashion as the land owner"
I think this certainly passes the reasonable test and the judge should look favorably on a land owner protecting his corner using proper methods. I would hold it over proration or calculations from other points. It fits well within the care that it appears the other points were set and I think there is no reason to fault the location as being a restoration of a obliterated point.
Deral
I think the property owner did a great job. Give him a pat on the back. The normal story is one of putting it back by memory once it's already been torn out of the ground.
You've got direct evidence of the original position with testimony of its perpetuation. Your measurements corroborate the testimony. Direct evidence links the monument to an original corner. Accept it as such. Original corners have no error, not 0.16' (or whatever) of potential error.
JBS
Hold it.
Then the neighbor walks out and says, "man that guy is freaking nuts, I would not believe a word he says!":-@
> Actually Kent, Rankin said it was within 0.06' of it's calculated position. The original position is unknown.
>
>
> I'm sure a lot of pins have been monkeyed with by laypeople. In this case, the landowner actually admitted it.
Yes, but when you know know that the marker has been disturbed, you don't get to pretend that it hasn't been. The poster didn't say exactly what his basis for calculating its original position would be, but seems to suggest that it wouldn't be very good.
> The numbers say it's within 0.06' of calc position, measurements between other nearby undisturbed pipes vary from 0.2' short to 0.10' long.
Get yourself a 1/2" iron, a 1/2" pipe, and finally a t-iron. Flag your found pipe liberally. Set the rod at your calc'd pos (+-0.06"), set the pipe at prorated pos. for 0.2' short, finally set t-iron for prorated pos. 0.10' long. Cap nothing, do not record. Good to go! 😉
Rankin,
You wrote:
“The numbers say it's within 0.06' of calc position, measurements between other nearby undisturbed pipes vary from 0.2' short to 0.10' long.”
Hold the pipe. 🙂
Isn't this a perfect example of the 'Surveyors Administration of Oaths' to be shown on the Record of Survey?
You're good to go. Even if he just said the corner was "Right here" and that position fits without any monumentation, it would still be an acceptable location.