grab the 100 chain out of the truck...
poor kid had no clue of what I was referring to.
Sad, so sad.
I bet I used the same K&E transit at MS State U. back in '81 that my dad used there back in '41.;-)
Next, have him go grab some chaining pins or tell him to calibrate his plum bob...
OK.
OK.
Have your fun.
Then break out the GPS and your college graduate "trainee" will show you what they learned in college.
Have them run the Least Squares solutions that you never could figure out.
Can you really claim the accuracy statements on the ALTA standards now?
Many of the surveyors I know can't. They just don't do it that way. Never learned how.
Let the college graduate "trainee" be the brunt of the jokes the way we all were when we started out in surveying. It will be good for them and they can learn to take it. They will be better for it, just like we all are. Then they will take you to the places you need to be in your business.
It is like getting a new airplane. It still has go get off the ground and all that, but it is made to go higher and faster. Got to work with these new airplanes so you can ride their coat tails to higher and faster!
Just sayin.
I finally took the 200' chain out of my truck about a month ago. I hadn't used it in at least 15 years. I left the 100-footer in there "just in case," though the odds are that I'll never use it on an actual job again, either.
No. College trainees do not take you to places you need to be.
We do not need to ride their coattails.
Their least squares solutions are meaningless to land surveying.
They need to learn, not teach.
Don
Or grab the relative bearing grease, when an angle won't close.
Rick
Don
I understand what you are saying and agree with most, but I have yet to meet a person that I can't learn something from. Even a newbie.
Andy
I'm with Luke and andy on this one. I guess you're right not to let the new guy think he can now replace you, or that he doesn't have anything to learn, but I wouldn't let that stop me from utilizing what expertise he does have. I have a wide range of employees and each one of them has some talent that I don't. Have your best stone-sniffer sniffing out stones and your best GPS guy running the GPS equipment, and have them share some of their knowledge.
>
> Their least squares solutions are meaningless to land surveying.
>
?!?!?
Stephen
I once was young...
and had a lot of good ideas.
I worked for an outfit that had licensed (grand-fathered) surveyors hanging on the walls like tree frogs. My 'newbie' license didn't mean a thing to the management. Suggesting anything new or different just made them screw up their faces like they were suckin' on green persimmons.
Electronic distance measurement was originally met with some skepticism, but the proof was in the pudding. Our field traverse closures jumped from 1:6 or 7k to 1:80 or 90k, an impressive jump. We no longer had to drop a chain and rough chain the distances we had measured electronically..to 'check' them..
I had noticed that our theodolite mounted edms were capable of displaying vertical differences as well as horizontal. Seemed to me if the horizontal accuracy was that good; as long as the HI and target height was addressed properly, elevations could be measured with some degree of accuracy.
I mentioned it. You'd have thought I pissed in the coffee pot. What a crazy idea. I ran some standard levels with the crews and then 'shot' them with the edms. I was coming up with enough good data to give creedence the procedure's possibility. It took literally years for the crusty old heirarchy to admit that it was even possible.
Now it's an accepted practice.
We used to color blue top hubs with keil (lumber crayons). I was the first one I knew to blow the ends with a can of blue spray paint before we set them. Saved a lot of time. Now we have 'whiskers'. Those innovations didn't come from the old guys that I worked for, that's for sure.
Youth has its place in our industry. I don't care if a young person's initial association with the profession is proper higher education, or rod jockeying, there's a place for insight and intuitiveness. The tempering of young minds with the day to day exposure of unique problems and field conditions is called "experience". Experience is what we rely on this profession. Let the young'ns get theirs, I got mine.
Now quit punchin' on your cell phone and put the truck radio back on the C&W station I like....I'm still the boss today.;-)
College or no college I would go over the equipment our company uses with the trainee before hitting the field. Show them how to use it and where to find it. For instance, I usually keep my 100 foot chain under the sawdust around the ice bar and wouldn't expect them to find it unless I showed it to them. And I would want them to know that when I say chain I really mean tape and when I say we need to dig I really mean you need to dig. It's the little communication things that make the day go quicker.
I once was young...
darn! you old guys sure talk a lot.
:good:
>
>
> They need to learn, not teach.
>
> Don
I agree with you that they need to learn.
The four year degree is not to teach the nuts and bolts of everyday surveying (although they usually pick up some portion of that). That is what OJT and experience are for. The responsibility of a four year degree is to teach fundamentals and principles; the underlying knowledge upon which the day to day operations exist. The nuts and bolts change too frequently for a college curriculum to effectively keep up with them. But the principles don't change, and that is what a the entrants to the profession that have ambition to rise to the top need; deep comprehensive, well-rounded knowledge.
Similar situation to newly-minted medical students; they don't hand out medical licenses right after med school for a reason. Now begins their internship, where the "real" learning begins. Well, hopefully they have already been learning for the last 8 years. The "real" learning is just a nickname for learning the nuts and bolts; the practicalities.
So, I absolutely agree with you that the job of a new recruit is to learn; mouth shut, ears open. But, the rest of your post is wrong and wrong-headed.
Stephen
I don't have a plumb bob or a 100' anything in my survey truck. Haven't missed it at all. Thankfully, the short sighted outlook some show here are just as short lived. Nothing wrong with honoring the past, but we don't have to LIVE it or pretend that the future isn't fact.
> grab the 100 chain out of the truck...
>
> poor kid had no clue of what I was referring to.
Could it be he actually knew what a chain was, and couldn't find the item because you don't actually have a "chain" in your truck? Call a tape a tape - chain is not (or shouldn't be) colloquial slang for a tape IMO.
Old French proverb:
Un homme sage peut apprendre d'un fou.
A wise man can learn from a fool.
Old Italian proverb:
Un uomo saggio e uno sciocco, insieme, sanno più di un saggio uomo solo.
A wise man and a fool, together, know more than a wise man alone.
> No. College trainees do not take you to places you need to be.
> We do not need to ride their coattails.
> Their least squares solutions are meaningless to land surveying.
>
> They need to learn, not teach.
>
> Don
That attitude is why so many in our dear profession are where they are today. Sorry, but the vibe I get from many of the older gentlemen in our profession is that they feel threatened. Why? Why are you scared someone might teach you something? Surveying is changing. Either change with it or get out of the way.
I wouldn't flame Don like that.
Well you have to look at what is going on today. It is one of the reasons I myself went back to school. Things can't just stay the way they are forever, no matter how much you like them. The companies that are doing well today, are companies that have learned how to implement the new technology. We all love boundary surveying; it is fun and the reason most of us are surveyors. But it doesn't usually pay the bills, especially if you're doing it right.