That went off topic. Sorry my fault.
Anybody else decide to go back to being an employee and how did it work out for them?
I have been in that same boat for years.
When I don't have anyone to help, I simply go out and survey it myself. Lots of tripods, poles, prisms, prismatic reflective taped pvc and an ATV to haul it around. Wish I had a robot, just not in the budget.
With some of the helpers I've had, I would still go out on days and do it all myself because they were holding me back because I had to point and direct their every movement or else they would stand in one spot all day long and not pitch in or get a handle of who was working for who.
It takes longer because I have to move the back and forward setups, sideshots and do all the finding and digging. I also get to keep all the profit and not have to pay a tag-a-long. Tag-a-long is somebody that shows up for work and stays all day without doing any actual work, a worthless bump in your world that needs to be removed.
Don't worry about firing sons or kinfolk. When their well dries up, they will find something to do and get off your couch.
I refuse to go back to work for someone else while I can still get out there and do it myself.
I got one rule about that, "no work - no eat"
It is called "tough love".
Has anyone seen the movie "Sisters" with Amy Poehler and Tina Fey? Their 70 year-old parents, James Brolin and Dianne Wiest, have teenagers for daughters instead of the early 40's women they should be.
In our family the umbilical cord is permanently severed shortly following high school graduation. Not saying that is ideal, but it beats becoming a 90 year-old still responsible for providing routine support to 65 year-olds who have totally dropped the ball with their 40 year-old offspring, who in turn don't know what to do with their kids who are now having kids of their own.
Holy Cow, post: 350749, member: 50 wrote: ...but it beats becoming a 90 year-old still responsible for providing routine support to 65 year-olds....
Gramma Cash didn't pass away until she was 95, but the baby lived...:pinch:
Was her name Fertile Myrtle?
John Giles, post: 350703, member: 57 wrote: I've been self employed since 2001 with some year long time with the Army here and there.
I've been thinking hard about going to work for others. What can I expect to give up besides me deciding when and where I am every day.
If you can accept orders, although you may disagree with them without response, then go for it.
However, if you are used to giving orders and being you own boss read the post above by Rich.
B-)
John,
I recently did kinda the same thing. I am in the process of finishing up my jobs I have on the books, and went to work for a midsize engineering/survey firm.
I owned my own mostly solo firm for 8 years. I had employees for awhile before the economy went south. After the recession, I started teaming up with another solo surveyor on jobs that were too big for me to handle solo.
I took the job with the engineering/surveying firm to take the surveying manager position that is held by a good friend that is semi-retiring. I am adjusting, but it is challenging at times. The good thing about it is the steady paycheck, and not having to chase clients for money. I will be the manager, but still have "bosses". One challenge is dealing with the multiple crews, and all that comes with that.
I've been there 3 months,and like it for the most part. There are a lot I miss about being on my own, but I am hoping that I can continue to adjust.
For my part when it was not a good fit, I knew it and rebooted within 3 to 6 months.
I had the interview today it went okay. I'll be working away a week at a time and be home on the weekends. I thought the hourly rate was a little low though. But I've not looked for a job in a long time.
What's the average hourly rate for a surveyor in your area?
At the rate I was offered I wouldn't be doing any better (a little worse actually) money wise for the family. But it would be job security and no more boundary surveying. It's all construction work. I'm already missing boundary and haven't accepted the offer.
I would discuss bumping that number up at least 25 percent or stay with the current frustrations instead of new ones.
All I can add is be careful what you ask for. I finally found some competent help, sharp fella, could actually figure out a job and see it through. Thought I'd finally caught a break. Turned out he quietly resented the heck out of me overseeing his work and consequently his attitude made it impossible for us to continue the relationship and I finally had to let him go. His passive aggressive nature was slowly draining all the joy from my day. Finding someone competent is not enough. Looking like next year's going to be a grind for me.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
John Giles, post: 350801, member: 57 wrote: I had the interview today it went okay. I'll be working away a week at a time and be home on the weekends. I thought the hourly rate was a little low though. But I've not looked for a job in a long time.
What's the average hourly rate for a surveyor in your area?
At the rate I was offered I wouldn't be doing any better (a little worse actually) money wise for the family. But it would be job security and no more boundary surveying. It's all construction work. I'm already missing boundary and haven't accepted the offer.
IF you accept this job, give yourself a mental 3 month trial period. If it is not working out well for you in 3 months then cut bait and go back to boundary work as if nothing ever happened.
Williwaw, post: 350842, member: 7066 wrote: All I can add is be careful what you ask for. I finally found some competent help, sharp fella, could actually figure out a job and see it through. Thought I'd finally caught a break. Turned out he quietly resented the heck out of me overseeing his work and consequently his attitude made it impossible for us to continue the relationship and I finally had to let him go. His passive aggressive nature was slowly draining all the joy from my day. Finding someone competent is not enough. Looking like next year's going to be a grind for me.
So, are you telling me to quit daydreaming that someday I might find decent help for this aging solo operator? I know, I know, I am still a young pup, tell that to my gait, limp, and elbow.
John Giles, post: 350723, member: 57 wrote: No You misunderstand. The were supposed to go EAST and went SOUTHEAST. Almost double back to where they started
They started at a point to the southeast, went northwest then traversed southeast almost back to where they started. How they didn't figure out they were going back to the beginning I don't know. But I had a 4 man crew doing it due to the steep terrain and had an extra guy to carry the legs. I try to be as nice as possible. but a 4 man crew can't figure out they are going the wrong direction!
Is one person the Chief, responsible for the crew? You don't direct the other three, only the Chief, his job is to direct the other three. Is it clear who is in charge? In my experience, surveying jobs go wrong when no one is clearly in charge.
Some of the best work I ever got out of a crew was when I had to go run an errand. Pulled each of them to the side and told them that they were in charge while I was gone, but not to tell the other ones 😀
Brad Ott, post: 350853, member: 197 wrote: So, are you telling me to quit daydreaming that someday I might find decent help for this aging solo operator? I know, I know, I am still a young pup, tell that to my gait, limp, and elbow.
After attempts with no luck....well that's not true. We had never been looking for a chief. Just a Rodman. But these guys weren't smart. However we never had anyone apply at the pay range that had seemed smart.
So now I went and hired a buddy who was struggling bc he couldn't find a job (I know I know) but so far it's worked out great. He's smart and eager to learn. The only ones holding him back are me and my father at this point as we aren't ready to teach him more.
When we are ready, we can teach him more and hopefully we can get him out solo with a robot doing work. In time.
I was the one that pulled the trigger on this as my father will only be around so long and I'll need someone I trust going forward hopefully for a long time.
Rich., post: 350882, member: 10450 wrote: After attempts with no luck....well that's not true. We had never been looking for a chief. Just a Rodman. But these guys weren't smart. However we never had anyone apply at the pay range that had seemed smart.
So now I went and hired a buddy who was struggling bc he couldn't find a job (I know I know) but so far it's worked out great. He's smart and eager to learn. The only ones holding him back are me and my father at this point as we aren't ready to teach him more.
When we are ready, we can teach him more and hopefully we can get him out solo with a robot doing work. In time.
I was the one that pulled the trigger on this as my father will only be around so long and I'll need someone I trust going forward hopefully for a long time.
Thank you Rich. This truly is encouraging. I figure that ying-yang-karma will send me that buddy-son-daughter-... exactly when the time is right. So for now it is just get back in thee saddle.
Williwaw, post: 350842, member: 7066 wrote: .... he quietly resented the heck out of me overseeing his work ....
A lot of the time it isn't about being overseen. It's about feeling like the target is constantly moving and getting frustrated. I've been there. I may be there right now. If it isn't written down, it's bound to change from day to day.
I suggest a book named "http://www.amazon.com/dp/0887307280/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=48357304128&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=896029501843857387&hvpone=11.86&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_2rh194g5dn_b&apos ;">E-Myth Revisited", which is about just the sort of frustrations that entrepreneurs encounter trying to find good help to do what they want done the way they want it done. And the need to set up systems that people can work to produce the product that you want.
Norman Oklahoma, post: 350891, member: 9981 wrote: A lot of the time it isn't about being overseen. It's about feeling like the target is constantly moving and getting frustrated. I've been there. I may be there right now. If it isn't written down, it's bound to change from day to day.
I suggest a book named "http://www.amazon.com/dp/0887307280/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=48357304128&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=896029501843857387&hvpone=11.86&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_2rh194g5dn_b&apos ;">E-Myth Revisited", which is about just the sort of frustrations that entrepreneurs encounter trying to find good help to do what they want done the way they want it done. And the need to set up systems that people can work to produce the product that you want.
I suggest that anyone pays attention when Mark here recommends a book. The https://surveyorconnect.com/threads/saving-cash-tricks.322970/page-2#post-331160&apos ;">last one he recommended to me has had the effect of directly putting significant money into my savings account.
Thank you Mark!
Thank you Wendell & Angel!
This reminds me, it is time to drop some coins into the tip jar.
Carry on.
Norman Oklahoma, post: 350891, member: 9981 wrote: A lot of the time it isn't about being overseen. It's about feeling like the target is constantly moving and getting frustrated. I've been there. I may be there right now. If it isn't written down, it's bound to change from day to day.
I suggest a book named "http://www.amazon.com/dp/0887307280/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=48357304128&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=896029501843857387&hvpone=11.86&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_2rh194g5dn_b&apos ;">E-Myth Revisited", which is about just the sort of frustrations that entrepreneurs encounter trying to find good help to do what they want done the way they want it done. And the need to set up systems that people can work to produce the product that you want.
Just ordered a copy. Thanks