Saw an add were Topcon has put a mobile scanner in the hands of a surveying equipment dealer to provide mobile scanning services to the public. Wouldnt they need to be a registered Surveying or engineering Company . I really do not know how I feel about this . One more service out of the free market . So in essence Topcon is now Surveying?
Unless they have a license.
need more info.
about 12 years ago, there was a non-licensed engineer- surveyor who was offering to do as-built scans for ME's who did plant and refinery work here.
You know in some ways it is just like taking a very fancy picture. 😐
> Wouldnt they need to be a registered Surveying or engineering Company.
State law would have some bearing on this -- is topographic surveying regulated by the state in question? -- but it's another example of the blurred line between land surveying and other data capture services. Where's the line between topographic surveying and GIS, between construction staking and construction machine control, between photogrammetry and photography? As accurate data capture and manipulation becomes simpler and less expensive, it's increasingly difficult to justify restricting the use of these tools to licensed personnel.
NY defines surveying as "measuring the earths surface or anything on it" not exact words but close enough. Using a scan machine to scan an object, surface etc for a design function purpose (use by a PE or Architect)would fall under the definition of land surveying in New York. In NY, PE and Architects can do topographic surveys under their license...other than that, would have to be under the direct supervision of a licensed land surveyor
I feel that Topcon and the dealer are double dipping and using unfare business leverage . Yes they are taking work out of the hand of the surveyor .
Also I hope GPS gets canned then will be superstars again doing the hard work .
If surveying services keep getting easier and blurred we are going to be gone as a profession . Its happing now . We use to be the expert measures but now anyone can do it with todays technology. We are going to be half the numbers in 5 years .
All we will have left is Boundary ,but thats gone with the residential down turn . No ones buying
this would be considered surveying without a license in nc, have you reported them?
> ... "mobile scanning services" .... So in essence Topcon is now Surveying?
Are they surveying? Is everything one might use a mobile scanner to do considered land surveying?
I will grant you that some of the things done by mobile scanners is land surveying. But everything?
Last year I had lunch with a General Contractor. He was telling me about a project where he used a scanner to help him with an exterior staircase. He scanned the old, rotten staircase. Built a model from the scan. Constructed the new staircase in the shop and brought it to the site ready to assemble.
Was that land surveying? I think not.
As I understand the NC Rules, a PLS is required to be in charge of data models that are used in Machine Control. Beyond that....?? Who can say.
Larry P
I think the company is in Alabama .
Bring the point cloud up on the screen and you have a pretty picture.
Present that data in relationship to a property line, easement line or verical datum...you need a surveyor.
Larry, the key is "to provide mobile scanning services to the public" while a contractor can do his own scanning, he can't offer the service to the public. I doubt that one could legally provide scanning services to others in NC without a license.
> Larry, the key is "to provide mobile scanning services to the public" while a contractor can do his own scanning, he can't offer the service to the public. I doubt that one could legally provide scanning services to others in NC without a license.
If the contractor is scanning a staircase and offering to build a model of the staircase for a home owner, is that surveying?
Unless and until something is somehow tied to a property line, or a specific point on the earth, I'm not sure it is.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Larry P
Might be time for me to back away from the "this could be ok" statements from earlier.
The tag line leading into the article is
As the lines blur between surveying and GIS, dealers can strategically reposition into both service and product sellers
That certainly sounds like offering surveying services to me.
Larry P
PS: I looked on our board website to see if the firm listed as having a NC office is licensed to provide professional services in our state. Hummmm. Did not find a listing for them. Interesting.
The article lists a Mr. Adam Arrington as the guy in charge of the mobile mapping and also lists him as a professional engineer. In my state that would be sufficient as engineers can do topographic mapping. Not sure if the same is true or not in N.C.
Is there an opinion involved that requires analysis of competing information?
No, I don't think it's surveying without a license. Surveyors are never going to corner the market on modern measurement technology, and they should not be allowed to. The measurement expertise has gone into the technology. Surveyors, engineers, geodosists, physisists?, computer programmers, etc., etc. all have a hand in building these systems.
The question is; what can a licensed surveyor add to the resulting measurements? This is nothing new. Most of us started by measuring things with all kinds of differing technology, and then let the boss, or another company the data was provided to, determine what it all meant or work it into something useful.
Expert measurement knowledge has become more important in the development stage of new technology than it is on the ground. Still important, just in a different capacity.
Here, both the firm and the individual would need to be licensed, I do not see where Mr. Arrington is licensed in NC, nor the firm, but I also didnt see any projects in NC and a review of their website doesn't seem to indicate they are offering these services at all. I know that a similar firm was offering data models at one point but I believe they stopped because of the boards action on the matter.
Many aerial mapping companies now use LIDAR is that regulated in every state?
If my Dentist offers to laser scan my teeth to replace a crown, is that Surveying?
> Many aerial mapping companies now use LIDAR is that regulated in every state?
It is in North Carolina. Because that does fit the definition of land surveying as written into our rules.
Larry P
> Is there an opinion involved that requires analysis of competing information?
>
> No, I don't think it's surveying without a license. Surveyors are never going to corner the market on modern measurement technology, and they should not be allowed to. The measurement expertise has gone into the technology. Surveyors, engineers, geodosists, physisists?, computer programmers, etc., etc. all have a hand in building these systems.
>
> The question is; what can a licensed surveyor add to the resulting measurements? This is nothing new. Most of us started by measuring things with all kinds of differing technology, and then let the boss, or another company the data was provided to, determine what it all meant or work it into something useful.
>
> Expert measurement knowledge has become more important in the development stage of new technology than it is on the ground. Still important, just in a different capacity.
Interesting points; Let me relate a little story.
About 4 months ago I was summoned to a high profile construction site here in the city (perhaps the highest profile site in the country and possibly the World), I won't mention the name of the place since others have made it their cottage industry on this board.
There were some Geotechnical Engineers monitoring one of the many structures going up in this place and they were at a loss as to why they were getting a spike in their readings. These guys had approximately $500,000 worth of equipment and software. The OEM hit em with everything but the kitchen sink and rightfully so since this was the best type of Patriotic advertising money could buy and they were getting it for free.
I go down there and meet with the Chief, this guy had PHD in Geo-technical sciences and had 4 assistants each with post graduate credentials and PE licenses.These guys could tell you everything from Glacial rebound to where the nearest fault-line was in Manhattan.
We met for approximately 1 hour, I inspected his setup and mentally came up with a plan of forensic action. He handed me the spreadsheet data covering 6 months of readings 24/7. We were recommended by others basically to go out there and bail this guy out.
This was right up my alley and I was licking my chops, I probably would have done it for free just to have the opportunity to screw around with the Total Station they had. I looked out of the corner of my eye and I spotted a buddy of mine who was the Party Chief on the project. He pulled me to the side and said, "Don't take the job, so and so hasn't been paid by this guy". It appears that these people had employed another Surveying firm to take some unrelated manual observations and never paid them. Although I was revved up and ready to go, I believe in a "Canon of Ethics" which states I should never take a job unless the firm before me got paid. I did my research and in fact that was the case the other firm got stiffed. I bought it up to them and told them I couldn't take the job for those reasons, they offered a 50% retainer up front. I still turned them down.
The point is, it doesn't matter how much technology you purchase, you don't get the expertise and the experience with it.
Ralph
