Are these maps required to be filed somewhere?
I have a portion of the valuation map for the area I am working on. It used to be the Pittsburgh & Lake Erie Railroad. CSX acquired it sometime in the past, and runs trains on it. I now need another portion.
The story I heard is that CSX does not have the maps. P&LE was throwing everything out, and one of the surveyors thought that was wrong, so he took them. Someone at the client's end knows who it is, but is being very secretive and refuses to divulge (government employee). He provided the original map I have, but won't get any more (so they say).
Is there any agency at the federal or state level that archives these? Are there any laws covering their preservation?
These maps were required to be filed with the ICC (Interstate Commerce Commission), back in the day. I believe that the National Archives has ALL of them at this point (the ICC went bye bye some years ago).
Loyal
Do a search here on this site for the RR you need.
This topic has come up several times, and people post links and references that may be helpful.
I believe Loyal is correct about the National Archives. There are folks who make their living doing research there. I have a contact from a few years back I can give you if you need it (just email).
Thanks, Loyal. It does look like they have those maps. Based on a meeting I had yesterday with the client, and their inability to get the map I needed, I am giving them what I have. If they want more, they need to issue a new task order (they agreed). There are different factions at odds in the same agency (real estate versus survey/GIS). At this point it is up-in-the-air as to what they are going to do in this situation (i.e. fix the road or try to get a new road access from the railroad). So they may or may not need any of this. The adjoiner is the highway department (PA), as it is a former county road that is now a major state highway (2 lane, but a primary route). They monument NOTHING.
John,
ConRail was purchased, (split), by NS & CSX when I used to work at MBE. All of the conrail maps were stored at Island Street yard in Philadelphia, PA. CSX is presently headquartered in Jacksonville Florida which is where I suspect the val maps may be stored. If you have no luck at ICC, try the real estate/row dept of CSX in Jacksonville FL.
If you ever get involved with the former Allegheny Valley Railroad on the eastern banks of the allegheny river which became the Pennsylvania Railroads mainline between Pittsburgh and Buffalo, NY, I have a CD of the valmaps and the custodial records from the Kiskiminetas River northward. I'll burn you a copy if yu would like.
Thanks, Al. I did do some work years ago along the Allegheny Valley, but in the still active part between Oakmont and New Ken. They were difficult to deal with. Arrogant
National Archives 2 (NARA-2)
College Park, Maryland (University of Maryland Campus)
www.archives.gov (National Archives, NARA-Rockville, MD)
All from Charlie Tuckers workshop he did for NJSPLS in 2012.
It can be difficult to get RR maps. Sometimes it takes multiple calls to multiple parties in different locations. Sometimes the local maintenance area will have copies and will loan them out.
I had one guy tell me that he had them, but would not give them out without a court supoena.
I think with railroad maps you are facing a bunch of obstacles. One they are not indexed/filed well so it is a lot of work for someone to find them. Work that is not benefitting them or their company or that is on their schedule. The other side is they see giving out the plans as a liabillity, they are suspicious of what use you are going to make of them.
Years ago, I went to one of the maintenance facilities here. They had the whole set of maps laminated and pieced together around the walls of a large warehouse facility. Several hundred feet long. It was great....but hard to copy. A digital camera would have been great.
Let us know if you get anything from the archives and how you did it.
What CSX Told Me This Year
A few years ago when I needed a Reading VAL map I called CSX. Low and behold the gentleman was a colleg classmate of mine. I got my map but the original deeds list was blacked out. However it gave me enough information to go to the Lehigh County Tax office mand get a clear copy.
This year I needed a Lehigh & New England VAL map. I happened to get a scan of one at the North end of Northampton County tax office a few years ago. Went back and they left me search through what they had, most were missing. VAL map was included in the deed of transfer but there is no way they say to get a blowup of the image. Deed info is unreadable but at least I do know which maps I need. I contacted CSX with my request. Denied, the reason being "they have seen their maps used against them in court". Gee if I were going to court I would subpoena the map, so that excuse is lame.
I do have a copy of a deed map from and adjacent parcel that was still taped to the deed page. Most such copies have long since fallen out or will glombed up by greedy or lazy individuals. My problem is the RR passes through my PQ and the North and South descriptions are not in agreement. Also the North R.O.W. deviates from the centerline near a bridge to the West. I can more or less place the R.O.W. satisfactorily but between the PQ and the adjacent parcel to the East is an ancient access R.O.W. that my PennDOT map from 1929 says was a public road. Crossing the RR it is private but I need to place it, is it physically on the PQ or an access R.O.W. I have the highway tied in by locating a house at the eastern end with 2 ties to a CL station and have a PI perpendicular offset tie iron pin located at the western end. There is another CL tie just opposite the PQ western PL that I have yet to look for. I already have another tie point to that CL station from my PQ house, brick with no extra siding. That area is pretty much undisturbed for 73 years so that would be a great bonus.
I will check the recommended sights for the VAL maps I need over the weekend.
VAL maps are for taxation purposes so almost every county in PA had them in the past. They were too inconvenient to maintain and store, many have been ignored and lost on purpose.
Paul in PA
If you are working on a boundary, then the valuation maps are not the maps you want. You would want to get the first map-if it exists. That map will probably be quite different than the valuation map. At least the ones I have are.
The valuation maps show the tracks and facilities for purposes of property taxes, and they show things like spiral curves for the tracks that will not the curve data for the right-of-way, which is almost always a simple curve (exceptions to every rule and sometimes a railroad ROW will have a spiral curve-but it's rare).
Charlie Tucker is probably the go-to guy for finding railroad info.
Does anybody have a contact for a researcher to pull ICC maps? I had some pulled a few years back but I can not find my contact information. Thanks.
Most District DOT offices keep RR maps in their planning offices.
1913 ICC Valuation Maps at TxDOT? Never heard of that before.
I get maps here for CSX
I use this for Norfolk Southern.
Others are more complicated but obtainable.
Here is the source I had for Union Pacific
https://www.up.com/real_estate/PropertyOwnership/index.htm