Starting a 600 acre subdivision where a new 6500' road is planned to run through the middle of the project. I have laid out the centerline of the road with a 1-3 meter gps for the purpose of cutting the timber for the road. The loggers will make a 100' wide cut along the centerline. Curious how everyone charges for a service like this.
> Starting a 600 acre subdivision where a new 6500' road is planned to run through the middle of the project. I have laid out the centerline of the road with a 1-3 meter gps for the purpose of cutting the timber for the road. The loggers will make a 100' wide cut along the centerline. Curious how everyone charges for a service like this.
I would charge per foot at $1.25/foot for $8125 for layout of centerline only.
Are you asking about the layout you already did or the layout to make sure it's right?
Your 1-3 meter gps is with a wide open sky. In the timber you really don't know what the accuracy might be. I would bid the job to be surveyed with a total station and closed traverse and I would walk your layout before making a bid.
This is just rough layout for the cutting limits of 100 feet wide. The road surface will be built within this limit and once the cutting is done, the real road layout with the total station will happen. This is just to get the loggers going.
> I would charge per foot at $1.25/foot for $8125 for layout of centerline only.
Are you being serious? This could not have taken him more than a few hours in the office and a day in the woods.
How long did it take (or will it take)?
I hate doing jobs by time and material, but I would in this case. Also charge for the setup time. With a big project like that, I have no problem giving them a good deal to get started and build a relationship with a client. You will have a lot of work/income from the remainder of this project.
> Are you being serious? This could not have taken him more than a few hours in the office and a day in the woods.
Maybe the poster does not charge for his time. Maybe, perhaps, he takes value into consideration. I certainly hope so. The fact this might not have taken much time is irrelevant as to the value of the service to the client.
Larry P
The problem with a job like that is you spend a day giving them a rough layout for clearing, charge them $800, then the next time you see the job is when they are suing you for laying it out wrong after the road is built.
"Wherever somebody's struggling to be free
Look in their eyes Mom you'll see me."
-The Ghost Of Tom Joad
"Wherever somebody's not quoting fixed fee
They'll suffer the vengeance of our man, Larry P."
-The Ballad of The Value Pricer
> "Wherever somebody's struggling to be free
> Look in their eyes Mom you'll see me."
>
> -The Ghost Of Tom Joad
>
>
> "Wherever somebody's not quoting fixed fee
> They'll suffer the vengeance of our man, Larry P."
>
> -The Ballad of The Value Pricer
LOL. That's catchy James.
For the record I don't care how people choose to price their services. There are many ways and valid reasons for most methods. But I do think it is bad for the profession and for our clients to look at a situation and proclaim that the service can't possibly have the stated value based on the time required to provide the service.
What is the value of someone who knows how and when to administer the Heimlich Maneuver when you are choking to death? Whatever the answer it has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of time required to save you from choking.
There is no formula that can correctly correlate time and value. Value and time are independent of one another.
Larry P
Thomas, have you done this 1-3m GPS "rough" work before and had a chance to check it with traverse work? I only ask because I've followed foresters that marked lines with a 1-3m GeoXT to find that their line deviated up to 18 feet on either side of the intended location. Just be careful when doing that is all I'm saying.
> > Are you being serious? This could not have taken him more than a few hours in the office and a day in the woods.
>
>
> Maybe the poster does not charge for his time. Maybe, perhaps, he takes value into consideration. I certainly hope so. The fact this might not have taken much time is irrelevant as to the value of the service to the client.
>
> Larry P
Larry,
I have read your articles and I practice what you preach! As I replied below, I hate doing and do very little time/material work. But he is suggesting a cost per foot. The cost per foot is most likely based on time and material. Which is NOT value pricing. The OP has a big project ahead of him and a "Value Price" of 8G for a days work could lose all the future work.
Scott
:good:
I probably should have been more specific to the job. This will be an ongoing job for me. I am working on this with an engineer and road builder who I have worked with in the past. I rough laid out the road as the engineer planned it and walked it with the road builder. We made a couple of minor changes due to terrain problems. Once this is cleared of the trees, the real topo will be performed by me so the engineer can design a road for me to stake out with a total station. Maybe this is not how it is done in other parts of the country but up here in northern new england it is the norm. Was simply looking to see how others charged for this type of service.
> > I would charge per foot at $1.25/foot for $8125 for layout of centerline only.
>
> Are you being serious? This could not have taken him more than a few hours in the office and a day in the woods.
I'm completely serious. That would be my typical charge for that type of work. There is more involved besides time laying the line. There is making sure you are in the correct location, calculating alignments, checking boundaries, etc. Just because you're willing to plop some alignment on the ground in a day for $800 doesn't mean that I would. I've seen roads placed in the wrong place because someone did the job for a low price. There any many variables in my formula, but all in all, $1.25/foot sounds like a very reasonable price for what was described in the OP.
I would estimate it based on the time I thought it would take to do the job. My hourly rates that I charge clients have my overhead and profit calculated into them.
Field Crews ...$129 per hr (2 man) $159 per hr (3man)
Draftsman...$72.50 per hr
Just one way of many...
Good luck!
That is about what I figure. I usually charge 10 cents per foot which usually calcs around your hourly figure. Sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less. Overall it seems to work for me and does not scare the clients.
> > > I would charge per foot at $1.25/foot for $8125 for layout of centerline only.
> >
> > Are you being serious? This could not have taken him more than a few hours in the office and a day in the woods.
>
> I'm completely serious. That would be my typical charge for that type of work. There is more involved besides time laying the line. There is making sure you are in the correct location, calculating alignments, checking boundaries, etc. Just because you're willing to plop some alignment on the ground in a day for $800 doesn't mean that I would. I've seen roads placed in the wrong place because someone did the job for a low price. There any many variables in my formula, but all in all, $1.25/foot sounds like a very reasonable price for what was described in the OP.
The OP said he was using a handheld to + or - the road:
"Starting a 600 acre subdivision where a new 6500' road is planned to run through the middle of the project. I have laid out the centerline of the road with a 1-3 meter gps for the purpose of cutting the timber for the road. The loggers will make a 100' wide cut along the centerline. Curious how everyone charges for a service like this."
Just because you're willing to plop some alignment on the ground in a day for $800 doesn't mean that I would.
I never said I would plop some alignment on the ground, the OP did.
I do not do +- work, I would do the job like you described and would charge much like you, but THAT IS NOT WHAT THE OP ASKED US?
I still do not think you are getting it. I am not simply "plopping" a road in. This is for pre planning and seeing the feasibility of a potential location. We located that on the ground, made some field adjustments to it and sent the loggers to cut the 100' wide path. Once it is cut, I am going to topo the full 100' wide path so the engineer can design the road for me to lay out with the total station. This is how I have done many subdivision road over the past 15 years with great success.
> I still do not think you are getting it. I am not simply "plopping" a road in. This is for pre planning and seeing the feasibility of a potential location. We located that on the ground, made some field adjustments to it and sent the loggers to cut the 100' wide path. Once it is cut, I am going to topo the full 100' wide path so the engineer can design the road for me to lay out with the total station. This is how I have done many subdivision road over the past 15 years with great success.
I guess defining the scope of work a little more would have made this scenario a bit clearer. With the additional description of work, I'd still be somewhere in the same price range per foot. You're locating an alignment, making field adjustments to said alignment and assuming responsibility for said alignment that the loggers are going to clear to. Seems to me that coming in at anything lower than $0.90/foot you wouldn't make any money. I assumed that there were multiple trips to the site, field calculations involved, let alone the time and material to locate a rough alignment.
