Hi guys!
I am wondering how your government concerning lands handles transaction with land surveyors.
In the Philippines, I can tell you that red tape or corruption is rampant. It is everywhere. I am sad that this is a general knowledge that now becomes a norm in our government. If you fail to deal with the norms, you fail your project. :pissed: :pissed:
Just sharing..
Same here, but will have to be in P&R to really discuss the issue. Don't need to violate any site rules....B-)
They dont call it corruption here. They call it "review fees" and other fancy names.
I hate bureaucrats! I'm a 2nd gen surveyor and younger. My dad says "I hate to see what it's like to get things approved when you are my age"
Of course any process or review is too much for anyone trying to get a job done or a project approved. I have found less red tape here than even a two ago but that is anecdotal.
The type of corruption that comes in the form of someone slipping an envelope of cash over the permit counter is extremely rare. The conflict of interest scrutiny is also pretty intense, so the days of rail companies, oil companies, cattlemen, and defense corporations filling up state legislatures to push their agendas is long gone.
If you ask if there is too much red tape and corruption, there will be some who have never worked in countries where it is exteremely prevalant so the perspective would be a bit skewed. To some, any rules and regulationsat all are of too restictive, but to others that might be harmed by a complete absence of rules and regulations they might seem fair on a case by case basis.
I have done projects in for example Indonesia and some former eadtern bloc countries, and that level of corruption and red tape makes anything here seem like a walk in the park.
In short, there may not be common enough ground to objectively gauge the respective levels of red tape and corruption.
If it costs as much or more to get a review as it does to do the survey (which is the case with BLA's in many cases) then it is what should we call it? I think that if a review is really needed (which I am not convinced of in some cases)then it should be done by approved private firms, which add a block and stamp.
I agree that there is much red tape, nevr said thier wasn't.
Your solution of the authorizeed private firms is a good one, works that way with things like auto licensing in many states.
The answeer is not no process at all. Take away all permitting and process and people can and will get burned. The open bribery is not what we see at the permit counters. Inefficiency and too much process yes, but nothing at all like so many other places in the world.
> I agree that there is much red tape, nevr said thier wasn't.
> Your solution of the authorizeed private firms is a good one, works that way with things like auto licensing in many states.
> The answeer is not no process at all. Take away all permitting and process and people can and will get burned. The open bribery is not what we see at the permit counters. Inefficiency and too much process yes, but nothing at all like so many other places in the world.
Not sure about other countries, but I am not arguing about no process, but instead about a review. If a lawyer wites a legal, or submits any document what us their review process?
My doctor operates with no govt review, and that is cutting me open. Oversight, perhaps, like a zoning process, but we are professionals, and we hold the liability. If the review process was really about protection of the public, why dont they take any liability. What,exactly do the fees on a BLA do other than provide a job for someone that gets paid more than they would in the private sector. That may not be open bribery...
...but think about the Boundary Line Agreement. In theory, this could be done between adjoiners, with no imput from any one else. It is written that way in state law, and in fact works that way. But if yount to simply record what is in fact already existing on the ground it will cost a lot of money. This means that many BLAgreements (as opposed to adjustments) go unrecorded, except between the parties. Is this protection if the public?
I dont think public employees have bad ethics, I think that they get to chose whether to expand their power. That is dangerous outside of competition. I know some of the people at the counties, and they are typically nice and also intelligent. The nature of the beast is to increase power.
We all do it.
We ought to swap permitting and filing horro stories over a few beers some time.
The guys orihginal question was to compare P.I. with here, and that is where the comparing to other countries comes in.
It woiuld be wonderful if land tenutres were settled simply netween owners, the challenge comes in protecting that line of bona fide rights for future and past interest holders. It should nto be as complex as it is, but believe me I have delat with far worse. The publicly filed records are the equalizer when the chain gets fuzzy, cumbersome but a lifesaver in sticky situations. Where there are poorly kept of bribe-ridden systems then everything is settled by who screams the loudest, who bribes the most, or who has an armed cadre. I can live with some oversight to avoid those scenarios but agree that the process could be minimized.
I'd love to see Torrens more widely applied too.
You know who hates Red Tape in Government the most?
That's right, government employees.
They sent me to Certified Purchaser training. My Gawd, who knew purchasing a ream of paper is so complicated?
My new boss came from another department. I shouldn't tell you this but he has figured out that if you call it "service" then it less paperwork and headaches. We sent in some tripods for 100% parts replacement LOL.
What happens is someone screws up so Government, in it's beloved passive aggressive way, doesn't punish the guilty, of course, no, we make new procedures and rules (often handed down by the Legislature) which punishes everyone else and costs more money.
Interesting you bring this up. My neighbor across the street (in the US) just bought a house and property in the Phillipines. I don't recall exactly where.
I'll ask him what he went throught when I see him next.
Yeah Dave
But you are getting paid while the government red tape is holding you up and your are having to jump through flaming hoops to make something happen. The rest of us aren't.
Yeah Dave
I don't do it.
Sometimes it is less painful to just pay it out of pocket.
If it is large enough then I put it on my next expense claim.
It's weird how I can buy something and claim the expense and it is a lot less trouble.
There are all sorts of weird loopholes.
The 100% tripod and tribrach parts replacement is sheer genius, though.
I do understand
Way back in my old USFS fire fighting days, many times when we needed something small or unusual that we knew would have to be special ordered and would take too long to get, it would somehow just suddenly appear one day. We learned real quick not to question how it got there.
PS - Sometimes my avatar works and sometimes she don't...(?)
