Real estate agent

Real estate agent have worked against me for a long time. It's like the money is coming out of their pocket. A survey does add value to property. It takes away the unknown. Aids in getting title insurance that will defend a boundary defect. Such as an abutter's claim. The little amount of money it cost to have land surveyed as opposed to litigation is insane. I've never figured out what estate agents have against surveyors.

Jules J., post: 339206, member: 444 wrote: I've never figured out what estate agents have against surveyors.

We delay closings

With descriptions that fall outside of a platted area I often tell people the title (or deed) to the property is usually less reliable without a survey.

To answer your question, "Does a survey add value to property?", my answer would be maybe, maybe not. But a survey definitely adds a certain reliability on the title and can definitely make the investment more secure.

Real Estate agents rush closings so they can collect their 6% sooner.
No surveys are ordered until the money has been approved and by that time they can close within 10 days.
The seller or buyer can order a survey at anytime they want before then, whoever orders the survey will be responsible for the fee.
Nobody wants to pay a fee and then get their loan turned down.

Real Estate agents don't call me because they want something tomorrow whether it is right or wrong, they don't care.
It is so often that the owner says that it was surveyed, he did not get a copy of the survey and the calls for monuments in their deed are fiction.
No body can produce that survey or remembers who done it......lol

I agree that a boundary survey is an investment in the property just as much as a new coat of paint for new rug to cover up the pet stains on the floor.

:gammon:

Jules J., post: 339206, member: 444 wrote: Real estate agent have worked against me for a long time. It's like the money is coming out of their pocket. A survey does add value to property. It takes away the unknown. Aids in getting title insurance that will defend a boundary defect. Such as an abutter's claim. The little amount of money it cost to have land surveyed as opposed to litigation is insane. I've never figured out what estate agents have against surveyors.

An agent I actually have a good working relationship with (the only one) told me once that the reason most realtors don't want to involve a surveyor is because the agent's fee is calculated on the amount of the sale after all costs are subtracted. So any money that we get is lowering their fee. That is why they are always trying to get the lowest fee on everything, and to help their client of course. :angel:

It adds value, just not in a way easily measurable, similar to opportunity cost. I would assume that the real estate agent is aware that new surveys frequently prove that the raw acreage is less than the deed claims. Many of the real estate agents I've encountered are awful human beings (in nearly every fundamental way) and care only about themselves. Any real estate agent that councils a client not to purchase a survey should be fined and banned from the scam (profession?).

Knowledge is power. The most successful companies on the planet right now got there because they collected, organized, and analyzed data, then displayed the results in a comprehensible manner. A good boundary survey will always provide knowledge and thus always has the potential to provide value.

I used to post in the old RPLS.com forum, not much here, see a couple of familiar names...John Giles and Paden! I retired from a real estate career after 26 years, still working as an assistant to a licensed Realtor, and my best half and I own a small surveying company in Central FL. I've run a total station, I've drawn maps in CAD. I'm not a surveyor but I understand the grief with real estate agents.

However, I'm not aware of transactions where the real estate agent being paid on the net is the norm. I have been in situations where it has occurred, usually long into the due diligence period when things go wrong and either buyer or seller or both incur unsuspecting and high repair costs, etc and sometime the agent keeps the transaction together as a participant in the cost......which can mean lowering their commission or commission based on a net fee, but it is rare.

As far as the expense of the surveyor, it can be an issue. Not because your fees are unreasonable, but because most buyers/sellers do not understand your fees. It's been my experience that very few surveyors have open communication with buyers or sellers, and even if they do, it can be difficult to explain your work and liability clearly to them.

As far as adding value, it's hidden. It's not a tangible, like a pool or a workshop. Most people will never understand the value until they need a survey because of a potential legal situation.......or to put up a fence, especially if they have the neighbor from hell. It adds value in the case of acreage if more acreage is actually realized. In that situation it can also add a value if it is large acreage, if the seller has one completed before marketing the property and therefore saving the buyer thousands of dollars for a survey in order to close. I can never think of a reason a current survey would NOT add value, but the perception is relative. A survey of an 80x100 subdivided, recorded parcel with no obvious possibilities of encroachments would not add monetarty value to a real estate transaction other than saving the cost for a new one, a few hundred dollars.

Surveryors don't typically delay a closing. An agent will delay as long as possible creating any situation where their client pays for expenses unnecessarily. In our area, the buyer pays for a survey. If the buyer's loan is not approved, the buyer has put out an unnecessary expense. That would hold true for inspections, septic pumpouts, and any other expenses that may be required and prudent.

I've seen a great improvement in our area in the relationship between surveyors and real estate agents, more surveyors are getting involved in educating agents thru local real estate board or in general just explaining their fees. I now see title companies disclosing they will withhold funds from escrows to pay a surveyor for work performed if the transaction does not close. I've seen more surveyors requesting payment upfront for their surveys rather than payment dsibursed at closing...........your should expect payment when your release your work.

Like any profession, in real estate you have very professional and not so good to terrible and shifty. I can say the very same about the surveying profession and most other professions for that matter. As long as I've been involved with my husband's surveying company, which has been 15 years, I can tell you most of the problems surveyors have with real estate agents are created because the surveyors have allowed situations to happen over a long period of time to the point they have become the norm...like not getting payment until the transaction closes, that's really bullshit, quite frankly. It all begins and ends with how your control your own business.

I don't see the cut into their profit as that terrible. You subtract $2000 off the cost of the sale of the property, and then they get 7% usually split two ways off of that.

The biggest reason I could see a realtor not liking to have a survey done, would be the concern that it could disclose bad news. The whole reason we don't make a percentage off the sale, or our fees aren't recoverable if the deal closes, is so that we won't have incentive to produce a product that could hinder the sale.

I agree with Pat, that many people don't even understand what a survey is doing for them, and they envision it as an expensive drawing.

I like working for Foresters because the value added is obvious, monuments and blazed trees.

A survey can be a work of improvement, monuments and marked lines.

It also is information (what Google has made a huge business out of) but sometimes the information is bad news like 2/3rds of your park like backyard is over the boundary.

ILuvRealtors, post: 339249, member: 8778 wrote: ...It's been my experience that very few surveyors have open communication with buyers or sellers, and even if they do, it can be difficult to explain your work and liability clearly to them....It all begins and ends with how your control your own business.

Good to see you made it over here to our new little corner of the universe!

My first question concerning surveys in concert with property sales is "who is paying the bill?". Of course it's usually either the buyer or seller. I require contact with the entity that is hiring me. And I have been told several times (by the local real-state "listings jockies") that contact with the buyer or seller is forbidden. I realize that's a crock-of-poop, and it's a good indication of the flagrant unprofessionalism and ignorance of the agents and brokers. Deceptive manipulation is their favorite tool and I decline 100% of the work to be paid by someone I cannot contact.

There are a couple of very professional real estate folks in southern Oklahoma that I deal with regularly. These people apparently deal strictly with rural properties, generally hundreds of acres or more. Meeting with everybody at my office is a great thing and we all get on the same page. I've never had anybody disappointed.

"Very few surveyors having open communications with buyers and sellers" is definitely not the surveyors' fault. It's a manipulative "control" thing inherent to the low-end real estate business. I have trouble fathoming this and avoid it like the plague.

That is not true, to the best of my knowledge, and I am licensed as a real estate salesperson. The percentage, and the relative percentages going to the sales people and brokers involved, is based on the declared, final sales price which does not get reduced. Say the seller lists the property at $100,000 and the buyer offers only $90,000, which is accepted. Then the fees paid to the broker (and to his subordinates) is based on the $90,000. It is not based on that figure less thousands of dollars in inspections, surveys and other closing costs.

When I was living/ working in NH, a person I worked with claimed that the +/- thing basically meant the acreage was unknown. Supposedly, 88+/- could mean 10 acres, or 100 acres. Or even 88.5.

I never did get to checking that claim, so take it for what it's worth.... but, if it is true, I personally would like to know how much land I would be buying. I also would not want to pay taxes on 100 +/- acres if I only own 80.....

Well, hello again, Pat May. Hole Digger here.

Thank you for chipping in on this thread. You did an excellent job of describing how real estate sales actually work when agents are involved. Too many buyers and sellers want to believe the other guy is being 100 percent honest at all times during the transaction. The middlemen, that is lenders, title companies, etc., all tend to slow down the process because each of them wants to minimize their own risk in the transaction while simultaneously insuring against problems. But, slow is good. Slow is what adds the guarantees that the transaction is what both parties need it to be. How many people would simply meet on a street corner and one guy hand the other a piece of paper that says "DEED" at the same time the other hands him a check that says $400,000?

Holy Cow, post: 339270, member: 50 wrote: Well, hello again, Pat May. Hole Digger here.

Thank you for chipping in on this thread. You did an excellent job of describing how real estate sales actually work when agents are involved. Too many buyers and sellers want to believe the other guy is being 100 percent honest at all times during the transaction. The middlemen, that is lenders, title companies, etc., all tend to slow down the process because each of them wants to minimize their own risk in the transaction while simultaneously insuring against problems. But, slow is good. Slow is what adds the guarantees that the transaction is what both parties need it to be. How many people would simply meet on a street corner and one guy hand the other a piece of paper that says "DEED" at the same time the other hands him a check that says $400,000?

Well Hi there Hole!! Good to see so many friends are still here at Survey Connect! Your analysis of the minimizing the risk is spot on. And truly, tho real estate agents have acquired this "greed" tag, most of them are not in that category. They in almost all cases have a fiduciary to their client and only trying to do the best job for their client while keeping themselves out of hot water! After what we have just come thru since '06, greed is a better tags for the banks. 🙂

paden cash, post: 339263, member: 20 wrote: Good to see you made it over here to our new little corner of the universe!

My first question concerning surveys in concert with property sales is "who is paying the bill?". Of course it's usually either the buyer or seller. I require contact with the entity that is hiring me. And I have been told several times (by the local real-state "listings jockies") that contact with the buyer or seller is forbidden. I realize that's a crock-of-poop, and it's a good indication of the flagrant unprofessionalism and ignorance of the agents and brokers. Deceptive manipulation is their favorite tool and I decline 100% of the work to be paid by someone I cannot contact.

There are a couple of very professional real estate folks in southern Oklahoma that I deal with regularly. These people apparently deal strictly with rural properties, generally hundreds of acres or more. Meeting with everybody at my office is a great thing and we all get on the same page. I've never had anybody disappointed.

"Very few surveyors having open communications with buyers and sellers" is definitely not the surveyors' fault. It's a manipulative "control" thing inherent to the low-end real estate business. I have trouble fathoming this and avoid it like the plague.

paden, yes, agents are somewhat cautious about opening up communication between parties and the vendors involved. That is changing tho, too. It's not because of any self-serving interest on the part of the agent, typically. I have run into agents who do want total control of everything, sometimes for liability reasons, other times for ego, sometimes both.

All deeds in WV say more or less.

I've surveyed 15 Acres that turned out to be only about 3.5 Acres.

I've surveyed 200 acres that turned out to be over 300 Acres.

100 Acres=200 Acres.

130 Acres= 80 Acres.

It's quite common. People with less acreage always want to know what happened to their land.

Almost never does the surveyed acreage end up being what the old deed said. Usually by 5-10 Acres but that still isn't something you can rely on.

I looked up a potential job and one survey called it 700 Acres another called the same land 300 Acres. Both were old deeds. Who know what it actually was. I didn't get the survey.

I'm working on a survey of 200 Acres from 1990 right now. The surveyor had a 40+' bust in his traverse. He never looked for it but tried to fix it by adjusting it out throughout the boundary. Of course that won't work especially if the bust happened in one spot. Which it did. So the acreage is going to come up different and I'm left explaining it to the client. I think it's going to come out more so at least it won't be a difficult explanation. I know he had the bust because I happen to have his old field book. He even wrote it down in the field book but for some reason didn't try to find it. I figured out about where the bust was and the corner just beyond it was off by 47'. The corner location is fine as it was an original corner. Just the distances he showed on his plat are wrong.

John Giles, post: 339205, member: 57 wrote: A real estate agent advised my client to not waste her money on a survey the property acreage is sold as more or less anyway.

The property description of 88 Acres has a closing error of 3341'.

She is still getting it surveyed but at first she was calling to cancel her survey. I told her she didn't have to have it surveyed and it was up to her if she did or didn't. But I advised she did based on what I knew of the preliminary courthouse work I did on the property. Plus she would get a nice map of the property and all the lines would be flagged with pink ribbon for potential buyers to follow.

I really don't know the answer to this question as one would have to base it on some research of some kind; Does a survey add value to property? I would say yes it does but others may disagree. I told my client that I believed it did but that was just my opinion.

Funny thing I see real estates use a survey as a selling point. RECENT SURVEY! or SURVEYED ACREAGE! I see it all the time when they find out something has been surveyed recently.

If the 88 acres becomes 18 after the survey it most certainly will not add value.

spledeus, post: 339284, member: 3579 wrote: If the 88 acres becomes 18 after the survey it most certainly will not add value.

Of course it does. You'll never convince the seller of it, but 88 acres didn't become 18 acres, it always was 18 acres.

If you hired a knowledgeable stock broker to give you advice on how to invest and then you chose to ignore the advice, does it decrease the value of the advice?

If I bought 88 acres from someone, and it turned out to be 18, I would be considering a lawsuit for fraud against the seller. It would be best to find these thing out before a transfer.