Several surveys all of the sudden along railroad tracks. The tracks were a double set one was removed. I have a survey from the 60s calling for 75 ft from common centerline. Old railroad plans lack detail. Got me wondering how most of you deal with surveys along old railroads from a procedural standpoint.
Thanks in advance. Any reference materials which can be recommended will be appreciated.
The first thought that comes to mind would be to look up and down the line to see if there is any evidence of the spacing between tracks. I'd especially look at bridges where you may see evidence of the removed track.
I think what we are going to do is go down the track further a few miles where a double track still exists and measure the distance between them. Havint tied down the remaining track we should be able to get a good idea of where the other one was.
We often use old aerial photography when surveying along railroad right-of-way where some or all of the tracks have been removed. Also, the bed will normally have physical characteristics that can be located.
My suggestion is keep your eyes open for evidence.
In the town I live in the R.R. was here first (pre 1889). The original grant from Congress was for 200' R/W. A good amount of documents refer to it as "centered on the main track".
The R.R. Co. has vacated a good amount of that and now there is 100' to 175' in places. Trouble is everyone has guessed where the "main track" was originally located because it hasn't been there for almost 100 years.
In fact, just thinking about, I'm going to turn down the next survey someone calls about that butts up to the R.R....just in your honor. I thank you!
First I would try to find out what common center line means. You say those terms were used on a survey, what does the right of way map show? Could a 150 foot wide right of way been obtained using the first set of rails as the intended C/L and the second set of tracks were within that pre existing right of way as defined by the common C/L of the row and having nothing to do with the location of the second set of rails. One set having been removed would indicate there is a railroad still using that ROW and they have documentation, find it.
jud
Used to work for U.P.R.R. many years ago. Those tracks were the monument. But like a river they can move. Especially with the track alignment machines they have now. But I digress.
Be sure to get an encroachment permit from the Right of Way department before commencing any work or they can get downright ornery (seen it for myself a few times). The right of Way department will also have the official limits. But it may require county records to nail it down, depending on how responsive the RR wants to be.
Good Luck.
Check road crossings too. They would often cut the rails at the edges of the pavement and leave the rails in the pavement. That pavement may have, over time, been surfaced over, but the evidence of the rails may still be there.
We haven't been on a railway in years but I still remember 2.35' from running edge is a standard distance to C/L (give or take a bit due to track machines' "adjustings") as the standard North American gauge is 4' 8 1/2".
Cheers,
Derek
PS-
Do not wear, flash or even think red on a railway route or you'll attract the railway police
Main DOT offices may have RR plans or know how to gain access to them.
You may get lucky and they may have it scanned on file.
😉
In the last 30 years I have done a lot of survey work along RR tracks and acquired many miles of RR drawings.
From my experience it is rare that the right of way is from the middle of two tracks. Generally it is a distance on each side of the first track laid. A second observation is that the right of way changes often, generally no more than 500-700 yards of a constant right of way width.
If the maps are useless I would research the documents when the right of way was acquired at each location
> Several surveys all of the sudden along railroad tracks. The tracks were a double set one was removed. I have a survey from the 60s calling for 75 ft from common centerline. Old railroad plans lack detail. Got me wondering how most of you deal with surveys along old railroads from a procedural standpoint.
>
> Thanks in advance. Any reference materials which can be recommended will be appreciated.
First you should attend the Seminar by AREMA, "Railroad Surveying 101" to start with before even attempting to "fix" a R/W position on the ground. It is a fallacy to assume that the R/W is based on the center line of a track to determine where to measure from. The same applies to accepting a fence as the R/W limits. You should contact Charlie Tucker, one of the seminar presenters, and ask him a few questions. You'll be surprised at the answers that he will give you. His e-mail from the Seminar booklet is: ctucker@f-w.com
Everyone in the surveying profession should be required to attend one of these seminars.
Lots of good advice given here. Not sure of the length of your project, or whether or not it's along a tangent section, or contains curves, but as mentioned, the tracks themselves are treated as the monument, and do move horizontally over time. One particular r/w project I worked on, the interstate r/w pretty much paralled the railroad r/w, and the interstate r/w width varied on the side along the tracks. Old RR r/w maps showed the tracks to have a 7+ mile tangent, whereas the actual field location of the tracks has moved more than 3' E-W in the middle of the tangent, creating a bow in the line. Many recorded surveys had located monuments at the section line crossings, with old fences and mounuments along the far side of the RR r/w. Found out each section line monument fit very close to 100' from the center of the tracks, yet this created the r/w with a 3' bow that matched the center of the RR tracks themselves. Project ended up with the RR recognizing the historical nature of the monuments and fences at each section - and accepted a revised RR r/w alignment which created angle points at each section line. Probably a unique situation, but I wanted to try and describe it so you would know that sometimes the RR r/w, even though senior, can end up having kinks in a "straight" line.
The railroad up Willow Creek came after the land was settled and a need for a spur was created. That resulted in the RR acquiring the right to cross by fee, easement and some by an act of Congress. The Railroad abandoned that ROW by quit claim deed, some quit claimed to adjoiners for a fee and later to the county right over the top of the previous quit claimed pieces for a fee and leaving the County with the opinion they had a clear unencumbered route to the Columbia River. Some of those old easements granted to the RR to cross were written to the effect that the easement was only good as long as the RR Station was open at Lexington, That Station was built and opened long before the RR reached it, because of those easements. The lands held in fee by the RR did not have underlying claims so their disposal by the RR by quit claim caused no problem. The act of congress lands remains in federal control with the RR having the right to cross, but no right transfer that right or to dispose of. The words Right of Way when applied to Railroads usually indicate fee ownership, but not always. Assumptions can cause trouble when dealing with Railroads and the mess here is just beginning to come to light. Poor Counsel, Commissioners thinking they knew a good deal when they saw it and a smart RR that quit claimed their liability for a fee and walked away clean.
jud
Jud, what a mess...
There has been similar situations in parts of Oklahoma. One MKT route was abandoned and got tied up for years in bankruptcy. A local municipality thought they had it in the bag and had Fed$ to create jogging trails and parks (and of course a new public works office..).
Trouble began when it came to light that certain parcels had reversionary clauses. A lot of title folks, engineers and attorneys wound up with egg on their face.
Moral-of-the-story: Do your homework.
