I was staking some catch basins this afternoon for a project. The PM ask if I could put some offsets at the corners (that they have already knocked out) so he could reset them when they where done. I vigorously started shaking my head, NO!!! I told him I would come back when the project was close to completion to set the corners.
This is the same PM that was quizzing me last week, on what type of equipment he needed to buy, so that he could stake stuff out and how he could save the company, so much money, if they did it in house.
It depends. Building tree houses or penthouses?
Matt McCrory, post: 417574, member: 10684 wrote: I was staking some catch basins this afternoon for a project. The PM ask if I could put some offsets at the corners (that they have already knocked out) so he could reset them when they where done. I vigorously started shaking my head, NO!!! I told him I would come back when the project was close to completion to set the corners.
This is the same PM that was quizzing me last week, on what type of equipment he needed to buy, so that he could stake stuff out and how he could save the company, so much money, if they did it in house.
If he wants to know "what to buy", You could tell him to buy your company.
In heavy construction a lot of trades are acquiring total stations to control their work. Earthwork contractors are using machine control which is controlled by GPS or, occasionally, total stations. That's the reality. Nevertheless I doubt that this particular PM has any real idea of what he is talking about.
Let him go shopping for survey equipment. When he finds out what kind of investment he is looking at, in terms of both money and time, he might smarten up. If not then he will when he tries to use it.
Obviously referencing out property corners so he can restore them is out of the question.
Had a PM get me to stake offsets on a building and he was going to use his new instrument he just bought to keep things on line...I laughed when he asked me "hey mike, does this thing need to be level or over the point?"
The equipment he would need to "pull in" the catch basins would be batter boards and stringlines from your offset hubs.
Go get a license.
Matt McCrory, post: 417574, member: 10684 wrote: I was staking some catch basins this afternoon for a project. The PM ask if I could put some offsets at the corners (that they have already knocked out) so he could reset them when they where done. I vigorously started shaking my head, NO!!! I told him I would come back when the project was close to completion to set the corners.
This is the same PM that was quizzing me last week, on what type of equipment he needed to buy, so that he could stake stuff out and how he could save the company, so much money, if they did it in house.
If it was in Kentucky, you could always ask him how much time he wanted to spend in jail for practicing land surveying without a license.
Their laws have some teeth in them.
I know to a lot of us this no no, but this is where we need to educate the construction worker as to the law.
I have to imagine that his boss is looking at the liability factor of that and that in a lot of cases will keep our jobs from this guy.
Form my construction experience there is two type of contractors.
1) know what they're doing.
2) the don't know what they're doing.
For some reason the later don't meet me at the next project. Strange but true.
Never met any construction person that was willing to lend me any of their big yellow machinery for the weekend.
:manhole:
Warren Smith, post: 417643, member: 9900 wrote: The equipment he would need to "pull in" the catch basins would be batter boards and stringlines from your offset hubs.
This.
Isn't Construction Staking by offsets pretty much the norm? What am I missing here? If you direct stake catch basins, footers, manholes, etc., your hubs/stakes get knocked out just as soon as they're needed.
Isn't it part of the art of Construction Staking that you know enough about construction workflow to properly offset or extend control lines/layout marks and keep them from getting destroyed before they're needed? I know that was my experience...
FrozenNorth, post: 417704, member: 10219 wrote: This.
Isn't Construction Staking by offsets pretty much the norm? What am I missing here? If you direct stake catch basins, footers, manholes, etc., your hubs/stakes get knocked out just as soon as they're needed.
Isn't it part of the art of Construction Staking that you know enough about construction workflow to properly offset or extend control lines/layout marks and keep them from getting destroyed before they're needed? I know that was my experience...
Pretty sure the PM wanted offsets for property corners that were knocked out, not the catch basins, they of course need some offests
MightyMoe, post: 417705, member: 700 wrote: Pretty sure the PM wanted offsets for property corners that were knocked out, not the catch basins, they of course need some offests
Ah, got it. Then I agree with the OP 100%.
Mea culpa - I misunderstood the situation.
Property corners - not basin corners [face palm]
Sorry I was unclear, The PM wanted to pull in the Property Corners,
Tell them it is against the law for anyone other that a PLS to set property boundary corners.
Apologies for being anecdotal
Many years ago, I was laying out a new S/D for a first time young developer. Lot of curves and cul-de-sacs.
From forest to finish.
Project was proceeding fine and the client was happy.
Until...the utilities showed and started working. Gas,phone, elec etc.
We had set property irons with stake guards and staked the utility easements. Also had a lot of control set that was safe from the big yellow monument reapers and their accomplices. So no big deal to reset an iron.
A few of the utility reps took the client to lunch one day and put the bug in his ear to have me set offsets. They were going to reset irons when they plundered the corners.
They came back dressed in their khakis, golf shirts and confronted me. I was muddy and sweaty when they told me what to do. I responded with a no.
They got hostile and demanded to know who in the hell that who I thought I was and did I know who I was talking to. I laughed
I told them that I was the surveyor.
They explained how I was responsible for extra time/cost to the client. I lost it. Let loose a few expletives at them.
Client and I kept our distance after that encounter. It became a very successful development. It went to 4 phases of development in a few years.
Lots sold quickly.
It took years to get over the encounter with the client. We ended up working together on a Christmas meal for needy program years later and we put the past behind us. The miracles of Christmas. He went into politics.
He just tossed his hat into the ring for the vacant state treasurer office since our last treasurer was elected to the US senate last fall.
We completed the base plan for a 52 million dollar sewer treatment facility. By mistake, I gave the engineer the control.
Enter construction. The contractor called for layout demanding a very high E&O number (several times what I have) and to be able to have a crew ready at a moments' notice. Then he noticed that the engineer provided the control on a sheet and said, Oh, don't bother sending me your information, we have the control so we can do this.
6 months later I received a call from the engineer that my benchmarks were out and I had to get a crew out there ASAP. I showed up with printouts of my comps and found that a drafter had transposed a benchmark.
We provided 3 benchmarks near the starting point of the project and two at the ending point. The contractor skipped BM1, took BM2 (which was transposed) and adjusted BM3. He did not bother to check into 4 or 5.
We were then hired to as-built the entire facility at the contractors' expense. I made sure that I was on the crew and that the site engineer was with me every step of the way. We got a great tour of the facility.
Fortunately the facility is low. They were concerned with having to add a pump. They designed slack to the groundwater mound so everything will be all right.
69 vs 96 could have been ugly
