I've never tried to hide the fact that I loath title companies. I've never tried to hide the fact that I display prejudicial hostilities towards employees of said title companies. In their own circles, they probably are nice people. The same might be said for the Taliban or the Viet Cong. Plain and simple, they waste my time and make my blood boil.
I was roped into dealing with a title company a month or so ago in preparation of a survey for a non-profit organization (I was getting paid, regardless). I was told they needed the survey by the 24th. of August. When I questioned that date, because I had been told closing was on the 31st., I was told they needed a week "to check the survey". When was the last time a title company had any sympathy for a surveyor and a deadline? I told the folks over there I checked my own work and if they had surveyor on staff he was welcome to review and sign any changes.
But that was last month...
My fair town has a requirement for building permits in unplatted, in that any property conveyances in anticipation of said building permit shall require what they consider a "Rural Certificate of Survey Subdivision". Which is basically a recorded plat that usurps the county level government. They are a pain in the butt to me. I completed one such Certificate for a client in 2013. My client was selling 10 acres. The certificate was approved by the City and filed. My check cleared and my client was a happy camper. But rather than build on this property, the original buyer turned around and sold the 10 acres to a third party.
OK. Fast forward to two weeks ago. This third party is attempting to build his great domicile on this property. His title company called me all twisted up because there was a 3" difference in a bearing on the filed C.O.S. (page 1) and the written description (page 2). While 3" in 660' is not a big deal, it probably needs to be addressed. The dickhead at the title company called me and had the juevos to tell me they were 'requiring' a new C.O.S. be filed with the corrected bearing. When I asked of whom they were 'requiring' this, his reply was, "you're the surveyor of record aren't you?"
I explained I would be more than happy to begin the process. The last one cost about $7500 and I would be requiring 50% retainage before beginning the work.......oh whoa, whoa... Then I explained that if they didn't feel right about issuing a title policy for the property they should tell the property owner right away so he might shop around and find a title company that isn't so picky....quick end to conversation.
The owner's attorney finally called me a week or so ago. I explained that even though there was a typo on the document, it was recorded and signed by the mayor and council and the janitor, and I'm not going to completely redo something over a typo. He asked what I wanted to do. I told him I'd file a scrivener's correction and probably nothing else...simply because I don't have a dog in this hunt at all. He understood and asked when I would be filing the correction. My reply was "before the end of the month".
Well today's the end of the month. And I just got back from the courthouse a few minutes ago. I want everybody to know I'm a man of my word. 😉
paden cash, post: 338675, member: 20 wrote: it was recorded and signed by the mayor and council and the janitor,
Sorry Paden it ain't valid unless the the garbage truck driver signs too. 😉
And so recorded!
There are a couple of title companies around my area that I actually enjoy working with. But the vast majority of them fall into a category much like what you described.
Yes, the title insurance industry has devolved substantially in the 40 years that I have been practicing. The few specialists who deal effectively with subdivision and boundary matters are to be treasured. The consolidation of local offices into regional paper mills has led to this demise.
Warren Smith, post: 338694, member: 9900 wrote: Yes, the title insurance industry has devolved substantially in the 40 years that I have been practicing. The few specialists who deal effectively with subdivision and boundary matters are to be treasured. The consolidation of local offices into regional paper mills has led to this demise.
I've seen it devolve in the 20 years I've been practicing. And the majority of that started in 2008 when all kinds of development stopped. Many experts in the title company offices that I had known either retired or switched careers. Now we have inexperienced individuals that don't know how a lot of things work...
Some people enjoy being A-holes. For some reason they seem to gravitate towards title work, the law and bureaucracy.
Holy Cow, post: 338715, member: 50 wrote: Some people enjoy being A-holes. For some reason they seem to gravitate towards title work, the law and bureaucracy.
When it comes to title companies, I enjoy being the A-hole, too. And I can't help myself.
My attitude and behavior is childish and unprofessional at times. I really do try and avoid them BECAUSE of my attitude. But it never works....I'll get a call, I'll try to be nice. And then I start hearing this noise about "we REQUIRE this...or we want it to SAY this...or we want you TAKE THIS OFF"...and I can't stand it. They treat seasoned professionals like clerical staff. It's like everything you ever try and do for a title company is up to their approval. I would just as soon live my life without those folks.
oh...jeez...don't get me started...I'm getting worked up again....
Paden. Mate, time to jump ship and migrate to the great state of south Australia , the home of the Torrens Title system where we have no such thing as your title companies. A single state central plan and title register with electronic access. Title guarenteed by the state.
O what a feeling !
RADU
RADU, post: 338743, member: 222 wrote: Paden. Mate, time to jump ship and migrate to the great state of south Australia , the home of the Torrens Title system where we have no such thing as your title companies. A single state central plan and title register with electronic access. Title guarenteed by the state.
O what a feeling !
RADU
Quit it! You're teasing me...
hmmmm....what side of the road do you all drive on? B-)
Around here if you want to work for title companies, you basically have to be at their beck and call and work for rock bottom fees. Sure, they pass you a lot of work (and you had better not find too many problems), but you end up being their slave. There are a few good ones around that will refer their clients to me, but many have their own "captive" survey company to do all of their work their way (read: fast and cheap).
I am learning that it is the middle men that are making the most noise and fretting at the seams and whining their way thru the process.
They merely are connected to the 1-800 system gathering contracts they follow thru to the end and are responsible for those hourly update calls, emails and text messages. They are relentless in using every possible contact number to stay on top of blowing up your message boards.
You know that operator dong business from the kitchen table connecting banks with clients and contacting the surveyors in their PJs and bunny rabbit slippers.
They live in some far away place states away from the client and job and have their own metro title company doing the paperwork and closings. In reality they split the title policy fees with your local county title company.
That really chaps your local title company raw because they must prepare the title commitment for half their normal fee and not get on the receiving end of the big dollar title policy fee.
It is dang near the same as all the competing Realtor agents out there getting 6% of sales price off the top while everyone else has to wait and see if there is enough closing costs to cover their low on the totem pole of fees. Then there is that army of agents that work thru a broker for a few points per contract while their broker is constantly on a extended trip and never reachable.
what a game............
I have decided that when I retire that I will just simply change the phone message as follows:
Thanks for calling Rarely Surveying.
Please listen to the options as they have changed.
If you are shopping price, please hang up.
If you are a realtor, don't waste my time.
If you need something fast, please stay on the line and I will pick up in the next few weeks.
If you are an attorney or title company go to H_ll.
If you really want a quality survey for a price that is fair for both of us and you are not in a hurry, please leave your name and number and I will gladly get back with you.
At a recent surveyors dinner meeting we were being entertained by a Gary Kent webinar extolling the virtues of title insurance.
So I turn to the gentleman sitting next to me (who has over 50 years running a survey business) and I ask if he ever heard of a title company paying out on a claim
He smiled at me, shook his head no and said "Jim, tonight we are eating chicken parm, the lawyers in the next room are having steak and lobster"
"Paden's Ongoing Resistance to Title Companies and Their Wholesale Insanity" gets high marks for compressing the right amount of content into the title of a post. As the forum software depends upon the actual titles to enable someone just popping in to spot potentially interesting posts without rummaging through a file cabinet of stuff, longer, interesting titles work are a great choice.
Variations, of course would include "I Reached through the Telephone and Was Choking the Title Agent ..."
We were just talking about this. Dad told me about title attorneys that would push surveyors around 30 years ago when he started in business. They would make demands on all sorts of things. Mostly because they could. That group has died out mostly. Around here, we have a good reputation with the title companies. At times, they catch an oversight on our part and we make corrections. Often times we find things of record they miss. More often than not we confer to determine the best way to approach title issues. No one BS's us anymore though. It just doesn't happen. I like working as a team with other professionals, whether it's real estate attorneys in title transfers, contractors in construction projects, or civil engineers on design projects. If I get the impression at the onset that the project partners are going to be contentious, I'd rather not even work on the project.
I have also employed the Paden Cash last minute submittal technique before. You figure out what is really important and what is just meaningless BS on some of those "requirements". If it is going to delay closing, people start prioritizing some of those trivial requests out of consideration.
Ultimately, paying clients have the privilege of making requirements (when contracts for services are being negotiated), everyone else gets to use what was agreed upon between said paying client and the service provider (surveyor).
