Consider a survey where the facts clearly would lead the courts to a decision of boundary by acquiescence and a few other items from the case law in your state.
Instead of doing a formal boundary line agreement with the parties what about just having the adjoining owners sign the survey plat that listed the facts such as the fence has been in place for over 50 years and has always been considered the boundary and let it got forth. Wouldn't it be sort of difficult to then at some point in the future try to go back to the original boundary of a hundred years prior in a litigation (deny the facts on the filed survey plat).
I think that's about the same thing as an affidavit . . . without so many words.
Make sure the signatures are notorized.
Better yet . . . do a Boundary Line Agreement(a few more words), and quit-claims.
There is nothing to convey so why the quit claim deeds? In my state a boundary establishment doesn't transfer or convey any title. It just fixes the location of the present title. There is no need to change the title description (or otherwise muck up the public records).
The agreement is already in place according to law. All the requirements have tripped long ago, so why do an agreement now. Everything has been fine between the adjoiners for decades so why should it be necessary to do an agreement now. Why not just acknowledge the facts on the survey and go forth as it has been for a very long time.
> There is nothing to convey so why the quit claim deeds?
Isn't that what a quit claim does?...;I don't know if I own it or not; but if I do, it's yours.
> Everything has been fine between the adjoiners for decades so why should it be necessary to do an agreement now.
This nice little peace between adjioners will not last forever. Someday, a nasty land-grabber will move in and demand justice, in their favor, be served.
It's better to clean it up today; than sweep it under the rug to be cleaned up 'later'....
Dugger
"This nice little peace between adjioners will not last forever. Someday, a nasty land-grabber will move in and demand justice, in their favor, be served."
That may be true. It's 2025 in court and, "Your Honor we now introduce into evidence a boundary survey from 2012 with the following statements by the then landowners."
Also, if a quit claim deed doesn't convey anything why do it at all? As a landowner if I was asked to sign a quit claim deed wouldn't I believe that I am (or may be) conveying some of my property. Why else would I be asked to do so?
A quit claim deed in these situations is like using a shot gun to swat a fly.
Nobody here is being denied their right to seek justice by going to court in the future. It's just that the facts being as they are and acknowledged by the parties, wouldn't it be sort of dumb to do so?
Quit Claims leave a paper trail in the deed records for all to find. Just because you may get by with taking the legal short cut, does not mean it is the proper thing to do.
jud
Maps may get misplaced or not filed. Quit claim deeds go on file for all to see and by the signing of the quit claim deed and acceptance of the deed by the grantee, they are finalizing the setting of the new/accepted boundary line and quit claiming any interest they have to land on the neighbors side to the neighbor.
I'm sure we're talking a very small parcel of land.
But, in any case, regardless of the legality of these documents, the quit-claim will, at the very least reflect the property tax responsibility correctly.
After all, a boundary line agreement is ONLY a boundary line agreement and not an instrument of transfer.
How many times has a surveyor made an error, like re subdividing a section already subdivided long ago, or re proportioning a protracted subdivision plat and cleaned up the mess by having owners quit claim their rights away. Or getting back to the original boundary from the surveyors mathematical arrangement by using a quit claim shotgun.
Another problem in many places is a quit claim deed trips the land use ordinance as an illegal subdivision or boundary line adjustment. The parcels are no longer eligible for building permits until the owners do a bunch of things required by the jurisdiction.
Many times a quit claim is just what many are claiming it to be. An irreversible solution to a surveyor error; a way for a surveyor to cover up not being able to find and sort out the facts.
Why can't there just be a way to acknowledge what the law is without loading and firing all the shotguns?
I fully understand what you are all saying, I'm just questioning why, or if that is the best approach.
Actually what I'm thinking of is wedge a mile long and two chains wide at one end. Not real valuable land just sheep pasture. But why should the size or value or the land really matter? The boundary should be where it is established. If that is the law why should we need to quit claim all around to get there?
> Another problem in many places is a quit claim deed trips the land use ordinance as an illegal subdivision or boundary line adjustment. The parcels are no longer eligible for building permits until the owners do a bunch of things required by the jurisdiction.
Two words: Confirmatory Deed
"Confirmatory Deed"
That's a new term for me. Would you give a further explanation please.
I did find this by search. Not sure it applies to boundary establishment after the original conveyance:
Confirmatory deed is a type of deed, which is used to correct certain defects in record title. It is important to know that the purpose of a confirmatory deed is not to give or create a new title but simply to "perfect the evidence of a title created long before". "A deed stating that it is given to replace a certain deed of the same tenor is merely confirmatory, and does not pass a title to a part of land which one of the grantors has acquired after the execution of the lost deed and before the execution of the confirmatory one".
Confirmatory deeds may be used to correct the deeds to the present titleholders as well as prior defects in record title. See Bon v. Graves, 104 N.E. 2d 1023 (1914), which held that a "confirmatory deed, properly sealed and declaring that an earlier deed between the same parties was also sealed, obviated the defect in the title arising from lack of seal on the earlier deed".
When a confirmatory deed is used to correct a title defect in the deed to the original grantee, who had already conveyed the property to third parties, the confirmatory deed should run to the original grantee "and to those persons claiming by, through or under him by instruments of record". It should be dated "as of" the date of the original conveyance, contain a reference to the deed being confirmed and a statement that it is given to confirm the earlier deed.
Sounds like a deed reformation to me.
In Maryland, confirmatory deeds are sometimes used when there is a change in the description of the property, but no title is transferred. In your case the survey would be recorded in the plat records and a confirmatory deed would be recorded to get said plat into the chain of title.
Sounds like a useful concept. I need to think about how it may be used in my state or put into use through legislation.
That's really the biggie isn't it. Everyone wants the deed title record to match the real mathematical position (bearings and distances) of the parcel on the ground BUT many times it just doesn't and never did from the begginning! Depending on how accurate ones wants to get, it probably never will.
Maybe a set of record title records and a set of survey records showing position should be related but maintained separate.
Other than fixing the issue with quit claim deeds, any other discussion on the original question?
Somewhere, at some time, eventually, the boundary line agreement is going to have to be documented into a filed description which indicates the new acreages etc..
While I understand the strength of a boundary line agreement, I don't understand the idea of "kicking the can down the road"(like congress), when a follow-up quit-claim will establish the line(in a deed), and update the incorrect/ambiguous deeds that evidently exist.
A boundary line agreement doesn't change the boundary, or the acreage. It doesn't change title. It is an agreement as to where the existing boundary line is. The acreage may be different than the record when you calculate it based on a survey. But that is quite often true in a retracement survey. The deeded acreage stays the same.
Sometimes a "boundary line adjustment" is used to move a boundary line. This would change title and acreage; and that might be where quitclaims are in order.
Or that's the way I understand it.
> Other than fixing the issue with quit claim deeds, any other discussion on the original question?
I don't know the legal ramifications, but it sounds good to me. Turning it into a boundary line agreement, may be a more substantive way to do it that has been tested in court. (?)
"Somewhere, at some time, eventually, the boundary line agreement is going to have to be documented into a filed description which indicates the new acreages etc.."
WHY? If a survey is filed in the survey records all that information about location and such is available to anyone who wants it. If there is no survey they could get one done. If they want to know who owns the title to the parcel they can go to the official title records in the recorders office.
OK, I thought it was fairly obvious what the general conciseness was. A survey document is not a legal document other than that the surveyor could be held liable for mistakes. Those surveys we do, only gain some legal status by the actions of the owners over time. The owners signatures without some language and notary's stamps would probably mean little. It is the deed records and chain of title that counts, don't know any title people who check survey records for title issues. We should be opposed to hiding such things on a survey, doubly so in the non recording states.
jud
