Out Bid On A Coastal Topographic Survey

Ya git wut ya pae fo! Silly foowl!

Why would any professional take so much risk for so little profit?

I dislike the term "bid" for professional services. Sell your service, you need to learn to educate your client that you are providing a professional service, not digging a ditch.

Unfortunately, easier said than done in most cases.

Isn't any "proposal" for services technically a "bid" for the project? why get hung up on the verbage? 395 for a coastal survey like that is really crazy..are you sure he/she hasn't done it before and is just protecting the turf?

> Isn't any "proposal" for services technically a "bid" for the project? why get hung up on the verbage?

+1

Bid (n.)
a. An offer or proposal of a price.
b. The amount offered or proposed

Adam, What is your opinion on the validity of a RPLS locating the mean Higher High tide on coastal properties? Do you prescribe to the theory that this is an exclusive service of a LSLS?

what is an LSLS?

Here in Texas, we have two different types of licensing. A RPLS is a Registered Professional Land Surveyor and a LSLS is a Licensed State Land Surveyor. Texas has, through the years, registered over 6000 RPLS but only less than 100 LSLSs. It is a subject of debate what powers a LSLS has that an RPLS does not. It ranges from; only a LSLS can offer an opinion of the common boundary of private interests and state lands to they only have the ability to file their opinions with the GLO. Specifically, most LSLS surveyors will argue that defining a coastal boundary is their exclusive domain, which if correct, would indicate Mr. Salazar is offering a service he cannot provide at any fee, unless he chooses to sub-contract the coastal boundary to a LSLS. It is an interesting debate only among Texas surveyors.

God Bless Texas!

thanks for the info Gene.. very interesting issue...

if it hasn't been decided by the State of Texas, then I don't think you can say with any certainty that Adam is proposing anything out of his range of services. My guess is he knows more of what's at stake here than the surveyor low baller that got the project.

I know Adam personally, respect his opinion and genuinely interested in his view on the subject. I did not intend this question to be an editorial of which person, Adam or the alleged low-baller, has the moral high ground. Sheez!

Hey Gene,

In short, I believe that not only should RPLS' be determining gradient and coastal boundaries, it is our duty.

According to state statute, it is not the exclusive domain of an LSLS to determine riparian and coastal boundaries. In fact, in a conversation I've had with both Darrell Shine and Nedra Foster, while determining the gradient boundary on the San Marcos River near Martindale, it was their expressed belief that an RPLS has every right with experience and expertise to determine riparian and coastal boundaries. It is my opinion that an LSLS has no more mandate to exclusive determination of water boundaries as an RPLS does in determining boundaries for TxDOT.

As opposed to an RPLS, and LSLS is not a quasi-governmental agent. They are, in fact, state agents, and as such are required to file field notes with the GLO and must report discovery of vacancies to the state. That is the biggest difference between an LSLS and RPLS.

It is my opinion that an RPLS' main duty is the protection of the public opposed to an LSLS' who's duty the protection of the State.

AS3

I agree with everything you just said, but in my unscientific poll among peers, I would suggest we are in the minority on that subject. For a spirited debate you could visit with Gary Bowes and Bill Merten (you can even indicate I sent you). I believe they have strong feelings to the contrary.

BTW: Are you on your own? On the island? I would like to hear how things are going with you.

A real world example of an RPLS determing coastal boundaries is an Army Corps of Engineers project that I was part of where my company was a contractor to the USACE with direct responsible charge in determination of the mean higher high water contour. In this particular case, field-notes were filed with the GLO because of the scope of the project. Those notes would not have been otherwise filed with the GLO as an RPLS does not have the right to file field-notes execept for particular circumstances.

Another example I have personal knowledge of is where a private land owner abuted state land at a navigable stream which was essentially an arroyo. The private land owner hired and RPLS for the gradient boundary determination and the State's opinion was augmented with the gradient boundary determined by an LSLS. This dispute went to court and the determination of the boundary by the RPLS was upheld as the true boundary. The RPLS' field-notes were filed with GLO as a result.

AS3

Thanks Gene! There is a whole lot going on. Yes, I am on my own right now. Would love to chat with you sometime. I'll call you soon.

AS3

yes, I must have misconstrued this comment...

"which if correct, would indicate Mr. Salazar is offering a service he cannot provide at any fee"

It is true that there are a handful of LSLS'es out there who truly believe that only they can determine coastal or littoral boundary lines. The problem is that their opinion is not supported by statute nor case law.

In addition, every time the legitimacy of an RPLS determination of littoral boundary has been challenged in a court of law, the RPLS determination was given equal weight to the LSLS determination and has been upheld in many cases.

The Texas Natural Resources Code was changed at the lobbying of the GLO to make littoral determinations the sole responsibility of the LSLS, but there is a flaw in how the statute is written.

The Texas Administrative Code: Title 31, Part 1, Chapter 7, Rule 7.2 Coastal Lands is where the LSLS'es get their opinion. The problem is that this part of the Administrative code pertains to the functions of the General Land Office only, and the requirements of a "Coastal Boundary Survey" for submission to the GLO. The notion that only about 50 surveyors in the state have the right to survey coastal boundaries is ridiculous and being pushed by the GLO to extend the existence of the LSLS license past its practical necessity in the early dispense of public land in the Republic and early statehood.

AS3

> I agree with everything you just said, but in my unscientific poll among peers, I would suggest we are in the minority on that subject. For a spirited debate you could visit with Gary Bowes and Bill Merten (you can even indicate I sent you). I believe they have strong feelings to the contrary.
>
> BTW: Are you on your own? On the island? I would like to hear how things are going with you.

Gene & Adam,

I am of the opinion that a RPLS has the right, if qualified by knowledge, to perform riparian, littoral and gradient boundary surveys. Before I was registered I helped my Mentor/Boss Billy Foster perform more than one in Galveston County. Believe me, we went quite far in obtaining physical and legal evidence of the boundaries.

I personally haven't done one in years, though I have consulted on a few Riparian surveys in recent history.

SJ

What's the matter? not enough hornet nests to kick in Florida?