Notifying Neighbors

We have a standard postcard that we send out to the neighbors, and other people in the neighborhood. It serves as notice for trespassing and also a marketing tool.

We have received a fee new jobs as a result, and lots of phone calls from people wondering what's going on. But we have never had a negative reaction.

Dtp

Thanks Don. Do you do this for all jobs, or just jobs where you think there might be a lot of questions.

Whatever course you take needs to follow the law. Right of entry and trespass laws can (and do) vary wildly. Even when both are in your favor you have some responsibilities.
I wouldn't go to the field without contacting the adjoiner. Your letter needs to state when you will be there and what you will be doing. I would caution you to avoid raising hackles this early in the game. We aren't responsible for the discoveries we make, we are responsible for how they are communicated.
As an aside, I find it odd you expect to set stakes identifying the line different than occupation and haven't been to the field. Perhaps that is best looked at in another thread...
Good luck, Tom..

Wall Walker, post: 337896, member: 7427 wrote: Thanks Don. Do you do this for all jobs, or just jobs where you think there might be a lot of questions.

I try to get it done on all jobs, but sometimes the projects come and go so quickly.

To clarify, I have been to the site and located monuments that match record information, but have not staked this common line yet. I did not have to enter the abutting property in question to locate these monuments. Viewing the potential fence and shed improvements that may be encroaching from my client's property, and in looking at some aerial imagery of the property, I'm not sure the neighbors would meet the adverse possession timeframe, and the dog fence is relatively new. Regardless, I would still think that even if they had a claim, the record line would need to be staked to show the amount of encroachment, for both my client and the abutter.

When working for previous employers, we rarely, if ever, notified abutters by mail before performing the survey. Back then, when being the field surveyor, typically I would knock on the door when I felt the need to.

My reason for asking the question, is that I would rather take the steps necessary for making my job easier and less confrontational for all involved. Just wondering if people have found that by sending notification out before hand, notifying abutters that you will be performing the survey and providing your contact information, if this has made it easier in performing the job. I have certainly found that in most cases, people appreciate it when you give of your time and talk with them about what you are doing (while obviously respecting your client's privacy).

I have talked with a couple surveyors, that like Don, try to make it their standard practice. It is not something I have done in my surveying career, and my current situation is making me consider it, so I am more curious about how it has worked for others.

Thanks.

Thanks for the more complete picture. You are doing the right thing contacting them. If you can head off a misunderstanding before it happens that's a good thing...

Wall Walker, post: 337913, member: 7427 wrote: To clarify, I have been to the site and located monuments that match record information, but have not staked this common line yet. I did not have to enter the abutting property in question to locate these monuments. Viewing the potential fence and shed improvements that may be encroaching from my client's property, and in looking at some aerial imagery of the property, I'm not sure the neighbors would meet the adverse possession timeframe, and the dog fence is relatively new. Regardless, I would still think that even if they had a claim, the record line would need to be staked to show the amount of encroachment, for both my client and the abutter.

When working for previous employers, we rarely, if ever, notified abutters by mail before performing the survey. Back then, when being the field surveyor, typically I would knock on the door when I felt the need to.

My reason for asking the question, is that I would rather take the steps necessary for making my job easier and less confrontational for all involved. Just wondering if people have found that by sending notification out before hand, notifying abutters that you will be performing the survey and providing your contact information, if this has made it easier in performing the job. I have certainly found that in most cases, people appreciate it when you give of your time and talk with them about what you are doing (while obviously respecting your client's privacy).

I have talked with a couple surveyors, that like Don, try to make it their standard practice. It is not something I have done in my surveying career, and my current situation is making me consider it, so I am more curious about how it has worked for others.

Thanks.

My question is, why haven't you already contacted the adjoiner(s)? As I have pointed out before, if you personally meet and interview the adjoiner(s) during the investigation phases of the survey, by now you would not only have input/evidence from the neighbor, but you would have built a professional relationship with the neighbor and client, and would be able to sit down and thoroughly explain your location opinion to all concerned parties - potentially avoiding any conflicts. As you sit know, your first encounter with the neighbor is going to be a negative one - delivering bad news - not very conducive to helping the landowners resolve any problems.

As to respecting your clients privacy - isn't the boundary line a common line? Shouldn't both parties be involved in the process? No, you do not have to reveal any confidential information (such as the clients plans for his land), but the line is common and, as a landowner myself, I would sure as heck resent any stealth surveys (and those conducting them) performed along my boundaries.

I worked for a company that had door hangers, with contact information and a generic 'we are working in the area' notice. If we didn't get an answer when we knocked, we left one.

My thought is that it may be a good idea to simply let the adjoiners know when you will be there and for whom. Sharing too much information is the responsibility of the client.

Thanks to everyone for their comments thus far. Before I decided to go solo, I worked for one company for almost 20 years. Although I don't post much, I enjoy reading the opinions and comments on this board. Brian and Tom, I went back and read some of your comments from other threads and appreciate your comments there and your response to my question. Thanks.

Brian's approach makes complete sense for all boundary jobs to me.

When I was a young, new party chief, I had a job of staking a boundary. We just got sent out to jobs by the boss, and no one ever contacted the adjoiners. We went out and looked for corners, etc. Corners on one side of the property were all on the other side of a fence. There was a big dog on the other side and a young man doing yard work. I went to the front door and knocked and no one was home. I hollered at the guy in the back yard and asked him if I could come back to conduct my survey. He said sure.

The kid was a neighbor doing yard work for the owner. When the owner came home he was hopping mad @ me. I kept explaining that I knocked on the door, and I didn't know that the guy in the back yard wasn't part of the family. It never went anywhere except for the nut raving on me for a while. I think he knowingly built his fence encroaching and didn't want us back there finding out different. (by the way the pins in his yard were set by our own company and were still shiny and new).

Contacting all the neighbors in advance is the way to go in my eyes. Cards sound perfect with follow-up letter if and when it proves necessary. I don't care what your trespass laws are, it won't stop an angry landowner from causing conflict. The sooner you can calm it down the better I think.

I would love to have a standard operating procedure of contacting adjoiners first. But I don't control the budget strings here and sending out mailers, even a few, might be "out of scope"...

That being said, I've only come across a few completely unreasonable land owners. I had one farmer very politely tell me that he didn't feel comfortable having me on his property (it was a common corner, but he was being very polite) and he would prefer if I left until he could discuss with his neighbor what was going on. Since he was ridiculously polite and professional I had no problem telling him that I'd be glad to stay clear of his property until he had talked with his neighbor.

I have had some people tell me that I was trespassing on their property, but when I explained that I was actually establishing a boundary line by survey (and in some cases could show them monuments) they went from upset to curious. I've never had someone shoot at me (thankfully). But I have been approached by land owners who clearly had shotguns on the gun rack in their truck and didn't seem like they'd be adverse to using them if things got a little "out of hand". I can tread quickly and walk backwards while apologizing...

Giving all adjoiners (and possibly even a few other owners that may have property near enough) advance notice does seem like the best way to go about things.

Here's a generic door hanger formatted by the California Land Surveyors Association.

Wall Walker, post: 337949, member: 7427 wrote: Thanks to everyone for their comments thus far. Before I decided to go solo, I worked for one company for almost 20 years. Although I don't post much, I enjoy reading the opinions and comments on this board. Brian and Tom, I went back and read some of your comments from other threads and appreciate your comments there and your response to my question. Thanks.

The value you get here is a reflection of your sttitude. As we approach old and grumpy it can be a struggle to present in a way that gets a positive response. If a person has moderately thick skin this is better than any University...

whatever you prefer for a paper trail and official notification, but also knock on doors... and hut down any and all adjoining occupants.

Maybe have the client/owner escort you around. It could save you some very tense moments, or worse.

Appendix A, at the end of the referenced document below, has a letter template for California that you could use as a beginning point and modify to your own requirements. Copy in to your browser to see the document and download.

http://www.lsacts.com/documents/Right%20of%20Entry%20Final%20V1.6.pdf

Regards,
Larry Stevens

i usually send out certified letters to the abutters. I live in a non-recording state, and when I send out letters by saying 1)I am doing a survey in their neighborhood ( I don't always i.d the property I'm surveying) and I may be on their property to locate boundary evidence (we have trespass laws in favor of surveyors, but I like to let them know I'll be out there) and 2) I always ask in said letter, if the have any surveys in their possession that may help establish the boundary lines. You'd be amazed at what people have in some drawer. Valuable information not found in the town clerk's office.

Attempting to notify neighbors would fall into the "rare but has happened" category. The lone common exception being when the only logical access route to a specific monument location involves a significant journey across someone else's property. That would normally be something like a center of section corner. Fortunately for us, around here the vast majority of section corners fall on county roads or similar easily accessible places. Sometimes I will ask the client to have a chat with the landowner whose property needs to be accessed. That is nearly 100 percent successful.

I can't recall ever contacting nearby landowners in advance on lot and block type surveys in towns/cities. Most of the monument searching occurs along streets and alleys. Of course, there are exceptions, but the vast majority of our in-town surveys fit this scenario.

Here (Tasmania) I make it my business to inform other owners in rural areas of my impending work.
I'm with Brian Allen on this.
It is a common line and the last thing anyone needs is a misunderstanding of boundaries.
If it serves only to stir up trouble, then is it better to that first or later. Later would probably exclude your input and possible calming of waters between probably 2 at peace neighbours, until a surveyor plonks a peg in the ground and it doesn't fit an image in the neighbours or clients mind.

We should have the skills to sociably and authoritatively explain the where's and whys of the boundary.
How that is accepted varies.

One of my main reasons is to let people know who I am, my vehicle as it will no doubt be viewed suspiciously as I drive up and down, "caching the place".
Recent job I was asked what we were doing as several dogs had been targeted and disappeared over night.