New equipment. Which way to go?

It is extremely hard to beat the S6 and Trimble R8GNSS. They come in very compact boxes, and have superior ergonomics. The S6 is rocket speed fast compared to the other total stations I have used, Lecia 1200 series, and Topcon robots. I have never seen a gun as accurate as the S6. Both the S6 and R8 are easy on batteries, and are just plain excellent. The TDS software driving the TSC2 or TSC2 is extremely good. I bought one of the first S6's that came out, and board had to be replaced with a new one, and the screen on my TSC2 blew out, but Trimble stepped in and fixed it QUICKLY, not slowly like one of the other brands. I have had mine since they came out, and they have served me extremely well and are still going strong.

The only complaint I have is that if your TSC3 goes down and you have to buy another one, they make you buy the TDS software for the new one. They won't let you transfer the software. I have grumbled here and there, but all in all, Trimble won't sell things that are not good and ready for the market.

We are trying to get a demo on the new Leica Viva GS14, which may be a good move as well. We want a Leica MS50, but there is no telling when there will be one available even though Leica introduced them on June 4 and their ad said they were immediately available.

Hard to beat Trimble. I imagine they will release a comp to the Leica MS50. I noticed that they have put their VX units on sale. That generally means something.

Call Trimble, tell them what you want. They will respond immediatley. No hassle. They show up with the stuff. You get a demo quickly, and the stuff works like they say it will work. They promote their products to sell, and it works as advertised.

I agree on the S6.

I inherited a used one from Caltrans with a TCU which can be a robot but mostly I clip the TCU on the instrument and use it as an on-board DC. It fits in the box with the TCU on it. One battery lasts all day. I'm a fan. Lighter than the Leica 1200 and TDS Ranger I was using.

I have to agree as well. S6 and R8 are a sweet setup. Easy to use and integrate. Fantastic equipment.

1. Doesn't matter how fast the gun is unless your planning on running. You're not. You switch speed for Powersearch if you go Trimble.

2. Compact boxes? Leica is known for their cases. They're the smallest around and hold everything.

3. Tracking and Accuracy start with support, maintenance and adjustment. Make your decision based on the support behind the brand in your area.

4. Software. Trimble you use Access. Leica you can use Viva, MicroSurvey and Carlson. I'm sold on Carlson. Awesome company, easy to use. Leave software to the software guys.

The debate between Leica and Trimble will go on forever. I can run circles around a Trimble with my Leica stuff focusing in the things I want to
Focus on. Trimble can do the same with their stuff by focusing on different aspects.

I worked for one of the vendors you mentioned for a long time and am a retired pensioner of them.

It doesn't matter which one.

Set up demos from both vendors on a job typical of the work you do. Give them both the same information up front and see which demo goes most smoothly, see how your questions are answered, and then ask around your area about the experiences of customers of both relating to service and support.

Service, support, and training trump equipment any day. All of the equipment "works".

Sounds like your mind is made up. Which is fine. You're keying on great products from a great company. Leica and Trimble will both give excellent results however one would likely stand out, even modestly in a head to head demo. But the minor performance gains might be trivial compared to other factors such as price and support. In other words the ford v chevy, bud v miller competition is kind of lame when making a business investment decision.

I feel like I already know what I'm getting with the Trimble and the Leica is going to more of a gamble. I really think that the Viva software is going to be good, I just don't want to miss out on what Trimble offers.

I wish that the dealers were closer so that I could actually try both systems out. Anything will be much better than what we are using now.

Thanks for the incite. I'm going to try to look at both a lot closer this week and make a decision.

You don't need Power Search with a TSC3 thanks to the onboard GPS on the collector. It will find and lock on to you in under 3 seconds no matter where you are relative to the gun.. 😀

From,
Trimble Fanboy

>
> Service, support, and training trump equipment any day. All of the equipment "works".

Exactly right!

We use the S6 and Trimble R8GNSS and love them--great equipment. But it all boils down to support which is really local.

If we were looking at new equipment we would probably consider both brands.

Viva stinks.....I'm stuck using it now, and I really wish I had Trimble stuff again....

The down side of Leica is software. I am used to it, but if you have have junior crews, especially people used to Trimble or SurveyPro it'll be hard transition.

When I was choosing gear Leica was also 30% cheaper than Trimble and my local Trimble dealer was trying to cell me S3 for 130% price of TS12. When I tried both TS12 outran S3 by far...but the Trimble software was amazing. For me (one man shop) Viva software is not an issue, but price, support and robotics performance was.

Software always needs good hardware.

However when the software only works with a new expensive piece of
equipment, the manufacturer's newer model competes along with a
different manufacturer's models, with your model which is becoming
out of date.

As Adam Osburne said, 'our worst enemy is technology itself. '

I worked for an engineering companies who expected me to be sharper
than the salesmen and dealers and manufacturer reps and programmers.

Training is nice but you are really almost on your own to get your staff trained.
How much time you have for training is another factor.

I have been Leica surveyor for 20 plus years but my last Leica GPS purchase has convinced me to go another direction. The equipment didn’t work as advertised, the tech support was non-existent, and the dealer was stuck between his agreements with Leica, the software company and the crap equipment.
I just had an Altus setup with Carlson and did a direct comparison in the field. Although the Altus and Carlson Surveyor didn’t have the coolest plastic cases, best feeling buttons and the status symbol name “Leica” emblazed on them, the setup initiated, locked and updated positions faster than the Leica.
The gear also locked in more challenging cover than the Leica. I had two positions for each of my control points, I went in with a robot and did the boundary and closed into the GPS control. Much to my surprise the Altus points closed much better than the Leica positions so it seems to me that the “has to be correct” Leica line is also just marketing bull.

Funny. I sense the humor.

So Geolock will work right out of the box, no settings to change? So Geolock will work under thick tree canopy? So Geolock will work if your job has not been oriented to a backsight point/direction? So your Geolock will work without me having to reset the existing GPS data from the previous job? SO your Geolock will work without any hardware upgrade to the data collector? So you can stand anywhere (not just at the 360 degree prism) and search multiple deadman's around your job?

Look, again, I really like Trimble equipment. The tracking is great, at least equivalent to the Leica in my tests. The speed, yeah, come after me with that. Geolock vs. Powersearch, please. There is no comparison. It works everytime.

Trimble: "Fastest Instrument on the Market"
Leica: "Fastest to the first point stored"

Lets remember:

Leica works with:

-Carlson SurvCE - true 3rd party software, best support on the market. Don't take my word for it, ask your fellow beerleggers.

-MicroSurvey - another true 3rd party software, when developed.

-Viva - Don't like it? Don't use it.

If I may, what are the fees for keeping up the maintenance plan on a typical robotics instrument, Data collector and GPS unit (Trimble)? Thanks. Barry

Javad. with a Carlson Data collector.

Demo them.

N

For the GPS side of the question... Because you are in Alabama which operates a Leica Spider network, you will get the best results with a Leica GNSS rover or a CHC X900+ rover, which use the identical GPS engine). So in areas without cell coverage you can run off a UHF repeated signal from an RTK Bridge. You'd NEVER need to get a base station saving you 15K.

You don't need to do one brand or the other... you can mix if you use Carlson SurvCE or MicroSurvey FG as your data collector solution.