All I'm gonna say is, go take a run, with somebody, who can help with the javad.
When ALL the cars in the Indy 500 race have around 400 HP engines, and one of them has a 650 HP engine, the perimeters of racing, have to be looked at again.
Yes, it will force you to learn some items especially spc, scale factors, and such... But, when you see what 650 HP does....
It'll make you think.
Nate
All I'm gonna say is, go take a run, with somebody, who can help with the javad.
When ALL the cars in the Indy 500 race have around 400 HP engines, and one of them has a 650 HP engine, the perimeters of racing, have to be looked at again.
Yes, it will force you to learn some items especially spc, scale factors, and such... But, when you see what 650 HP does....
It'll make you think.
Nate
A robot is a must! One less wage you have to have on a start up.
Sokkia DX (SX has a rc unit)
I use a DX because I use a hybrid set up. Hybrid is when you are able to connect to you gun and GPS at the same time. With a tap of a button you can switch between either one. I do mostly as-builts and constitution staking. DX is 5k cheaper than the SX. The only thing you get with the SX is 400' added to your range on bluetooth and call button on the rc unit. But if you get DX along with a Sokkia GCX2 GPS uint (which is 5K and can be bought later) you can use that as your rc unit. You really need to read up on the GCX2 it does a lot.
I use Acad 2016 civil3d. For me Topcons Magnet field software is the way to go. Works great for exporting back and forth in Acad. Hands down best DC is the MESA 2. It runs windows 10 which runs Acad which is so handy in the field. I have not been able to kill the battery in under 12 hrs. The screen is amazing.
Im sure no matter what you go with everyone would agree just pick a brand a go with it. Cross brand communication is only getting worse.
When I was managing the Survey department for a large firm that had offices across the western part of the country we were a Trimble outfit. Then it was S6 & VX robots and R8 GPS antennas driven by TSC2 data collectors. No real complaints other than the internal radios in the R8's seemed to burn up about every 12-18 months.
When my wife, a PE, a close friend, a LA and myself all lost our minds a little more than three years and decided to quit our jobs (all for that said large firm) and start our own consulting business we began with nothing. We ran on 30 day trials of AutoCAD LDD/Civil 3D moving up versions starting from 2004 using old install disks friends gave us out of pity. I subcontracted out my field survey work to a friend who owns his own Surveying only business and did pretty well. Six months after opening I found a good deal on a used Leica 1105 robot. It had that old RCS1100 controller that is really just a straight mimic of the buttons on the instrument. I made a ton of money with that old girl and although it was a 5" gun it turned great angles. I did an eight month building monitor project with it and couldn't believe the results I got. My only complaint was the point coding. It was like texting on a flip phone; hit 1 four times for C. So...my next mission was to find a better means of data input. Instead I found an amazing deal on a 1203 but it was just the instrument. Another buddy had an Allegro MX with SurvCE he wanted to get rid of so now I had the setup I wanted and a backup if something happened.
A little while after that a local oil & gas Survey company decided to switch from Leica to Trimble and were selling off all their GPS gear cheap as big companies tend to do; they just want it gone. I scooped up network Viva setup they had for a song. It had a GS15 sensor and a CS15 controller. My only complaint about the gear I had then was I had a different DC for GPS and the robot. I could have bought a CTR cap for the CS15 that would have communicated with the robot but I figured why spend the money when it all works fine the way it is. It was cumbersome at times exporting from one to upload in the other but it's what I had and I made it work. Looking back it probably would have been worth the money to spring for the comm cap but hindsight is always 20/20.
There was no planning involved in going the Leica direction; it was really just lucking out and finding great deals when I had money. Recently I've been able to parlay some of those purchases into new instruments and controllers which are really fun. I really like the new Captivate controller software, it's highly customizable and would handle the attribute notes you mentioned above as being important. The customizability is very important though because if you don't modify it to fit your work flow you'll hate it if you start working with it default out of the box. I have 2 complaints after 6 months with it.
First is for some reason Leica chose to limit point description characters. This poses a challenge if your using Civil 3D to auto generate linework with Linework Code Sets. You'll run out of space in the description if you're trying to code lip of gutter, flow line and top back curb from a single measurement.
Second is the job and data management. That is one part that is not customizable and after you've worked multiple jobs it gets clunky sorting through them to find the one you want. I also wish there was a way to link a particular .CSV to a job rather than having to fully import it, that's a feature I really like with Trimble. It keeps your data and projects so much cleaner especially on large staking jobs with God knows how many separate calc files spanning months and months.
My Rep says there's a good chance both of these issues with be addressed with the next update so i'm hopeful.
All this said i'm not trying to sell you on Leica i'm just giving a brief description of my journey and experiences, good and bad. The work I do I need both GPS and TS otherwise I would severely limit my potential client/project pool. I'm 80% in urban environments so I don't have the volume of experience with GPS and canopy to comment on that. I do have to deal with a lot of tall buildings though and that's just a bugger with GPS no matter the manufacturer. That's why they're all just tools in the toolbox.
It is possible to hodge podge equipment together and be successful but like others have said you'll find that sticking with a single manufacturer will yield the best opportunity for max efficiency.
Good luck in your endeavor, i'm sure you will be very successful!
This is not a totally objective response since I work at Topcon/Sokkia. Try a Hybrid combo from us if you have a reasonable RTK network where you typically work. This allows the robot and the network rover to work together or separately. You are connected to both and it allows the surveyor to switch between the two instruments by simply selecting an icon on the screen. It also allows the network rover to provide search assistance in 3D. Its as fast as anything out there and more flexible.
pmoran, post: 369342, member: 8922 wrote: This is not a totally objective response since I work at Topcon/Sokkia. Try a Hybrid combo from us if you have a reasonable RTK network where you typically work. This allows the robot and the network rover to work together or separately. You are connected to both and it allows the surveyor to switch between the two instruments by simply selecting an icon on the screen. It also allows the network rover to provide search assistance in 3D. Its as fast as anything out there and more flexible.
All of the bigs have this ability. I'm less familiar with Topcon and Trimble's current offerings but a quick google search leads me to believe they don't have the GPS on TS option. Not that I think it would save anything more than a couple minutes. I mean really, how long does it take to set a couple network based control points and go to town? If you were outside of a reliable network it could save a few more minutes with it but again you would still be having to setup the base so all you're saving is a single RTK control point measurement.
Other than just messing around I've never run the integrated pole setup though. I wouldn't want to pack the extra weight around all day when it's just as easy to walk back to the truck and swap the gear.
13 oz really isnt worth walking all the way back to the truck
NWFL50, post: 369401, member: 11623 wrote: 13 oz really isnt worth walking all the way back to the truck
so bigger isn't really better...??? B-)
I got a Topcon PS Robotic a month ago and absolutely love it. My only previous robotic experience was with a Leica TCRP 1205 though. I am solo and move pretty quick with it in the woods. I am also 30 years old and 160 pounds. For GPS I wouldn't buy anything else than a JAVAD. Go to YouTube and watch that Billings guys videos on it.
I think the LEICA products is a good choice.
Gps:GS14 professional WITH CS20 controller (BE CAPTIVATED SERIES)
Total station:TS15 or If you need a BENTLY type buy MS60
Leica products is simple to work and productive and have good quality and the best customer care service.
It's field programe like ROAD is very powerful.
How would you like to have the SOKKIA GPS (The little bitty one, 13 oz above), along with a nice tablet PC, with the PERFORMANCE of the JAVAD LS, with NO WIRES to the GPS, and able to run any ROBOT?
With quick and simple GOGO?
I think I go get a sammich, just thinking about it! No, it's not here yet, but it is in some developer's head. It'll be here in 10-20 yrs.
Nate
Nate The Surveyor, post: 369697, member: 291 wrote: How would you like to have the SOKKIA GPS (The little bitty one, 13 oz above), along with a nice tablet PC, with the PERFORMANCE of the JAVAD LS, with NO WIRES to the GPS, and able to run any ROBOT?
With quick and simple GOGO?
I think I go get a sammich, just thinking about it! No, it's not here yet, but it is in some developer's head. It'll be here in 10-20 yrs.
Nate
Nate, in 10-20 years Google is going to shoot stakes from their satellites...
Off topic but,
Cameron Watson PLS, post: 369060, member: 11407 wrote: We ran on 30 day trials of AutoCAD LDD/Civil 3D moving up versions starting from 2004 using old install disks friends gave us out of pity.
I think that's excellent! Well played.
I would think if you haven't been surveying for the past seven years, and are trying to get back into the field routine, you would best be served by compiling a new list, between yourselves, of solid instruments you are the most familiar with that can be relied upon in the field.
Getting back into field work after seven years would be tough enough. You don't need any extra calamity.
Go for what you know then after you've invested enough sweat equity you should be in a better place to decide on what equipment you can leverage for a practical workflow. Plenty of software out there provide fields for attributes.
Brad Ott, post: 368990, member: 197 wrote: Try to go solo x2, with a mutually beneficial association with each other. Business partnerships rarely work out.
THIS is good advice. I'm currently trying to get out of a 50/50 partnership. It will NEVER happen again.
I'll leave you with one more comment- whatever you buy- buy it locally from a dealer that can service and support your purchase. Just remember the guy driving the big brown truck doesn't do tech support.
TXSurveyor, post: 368969, member: 6719 wrote: Greetings-Hopefully this is in the correct section. Another RPLS and I are considering opening our own biz within the next 12-18 months at least on a part time basis. We both dont currently work for a surveying company and havent for around 7 years, so there wont be a conflict of interest. With that being said our knowledge on the technology is somewhat behind the times except from what ive read on here or trade magazines the last few years with some exceptions in regards to equipment we have rented a few times.
We have an idea on what equipment/software we want to buy so I have listed them below along with our previous equipment experience. If you could help push us in the right direction on which combos will best suit us ( i realize best is a relative term). All work will be boundarys, topos etc.
Main Expectations In Making The Transition
- Realiable GPS that works well in canopy, i realize there are alot of factors that go into this. I dont have plans to use on a RTN, but might need to in the future.
- DC Software that communicates easily with CAD software.
- Field to Finish Coding. Something similar to what we used when using Eagle Point. (bring your points in and all coded points already have a symbol attached, and linework was complete if coded correctly.
- CAD needs ability to set up default line work etc.
- Ability to import aerial imagery in CAD
Prospect Purchases
- GPS- Topcon Hiper V or Trimble R8 (leaning towards Hiper V based on price and talks with other surveyors in my area based on the effectiveness of use in canopy.
- Total Station- Will go with either a Topcon or Sokkia with reflectorless (im not too worried about this purchase). Just want a good reflectorless for non pertinent shots
- DC Software- Survey Pro or Carlson (As of right now leaning towards these two based on current research, Im not a big fan of Trimble Software. Will choose DC based on software purchase
- CAD Software-Carlson InCad version or MicroSurvey InCad version.
Past Experience
Person #1
GPS- Topcon Hiper II (i think it was the II, it was 8 years ago) w/Survey Pro. Trimble R8 w/Access Software
Total Station- Topcons, Sokkias, Nikons. Limited experience with Robotics
DC Software- Survey Pro w/ GPS, MircoSurvey Fields Genius with TS (never liked how it operated with GPS). Prior use was HP48 w/SMI
CAD Software-MicroSurvey Cad version. No complaints with this software, as that is what the most of my experience has been with. ACADw/EaglepointPerson #2
GPS- Trimble R8 and R6 with Survey Pro
Total Station- Topcons, Sokkias, Nikons. Limited experience with Robotics
DC Software- Survey Pro w/ GPS, and TS
CAD Software-Extensive experience with ACAD and EaglePointThanks for your help
Have both Sokkia SX & DX robots run with SurvCE on Surveyor2's, great packages, superior to our Trimble 5603 & Focus30.
Our R8 is good when it works, wouldn't buy another though. Too much buck, not enough bang!
