Mortgage Surveys R Us

Back in the 80s these were the bread and butter of many small shops in eastern Missouri. As I recall the cheapest in town was $110 for a standard postage stamp lot.

Unless these are being drawn from Google Earth I don't see any money in it. Regardless I don't see any surveying going on...

get a copy of one and report it to your board.

Mortgage Surveys Suck

I'm working on a survey now of several vacant lots. The first residence south has had an enclosed porch (12x12) added on sometime in the last 5 years that encroaches over the property line by 7' or so.

While the owner of the vacant lots is my client, the owner of the encroaching structure has gotten in contact with me, through my client. This owner has owned the house less than a year. He is in possession of a "Mortgage Inspection Certificate" (from one of the local cartoon factories known for such) performed for his purchase that clearly shows the house without any encroachments. He's been following me on the survey and understands full well his structure encroaches the property to the north.

He's wanting a copy of my survey to try and sue someone like the title company, the seller and the survey outfit. I told him when he 'lawyered up' to have his attorney give me a call. With my client's permission, I'll provide a copy.

The kicker is the poor fella will probably be caught holding the bag. I bet his title insurance policy and everybody involved has got some sort of exception or disclaimer that insulates them from any liability.

We (Oklahoma Surveyors) tried several years ago to get Mortgage Inspections (loan surveys) deleted from our statutes in lieu of a proper pin survey. The lending institutes and the cartoon factories raised so much hell we weren't able to accomplish anything. A sad state of affairs.

Mortgage Surveys Suck

......cartoon factories.

lol :good:

Mortgage Surveys Suck

Are banking regulations different in the differing states on surveys relating to mortgages? Here in Florida, banks won't (or maybe can't) issue a mortgage without a title insurance policy. And the title insurance policy can't have a survey exception on it. Title insurers around here also won't (maybe can't) delete the survey exception without a survey. So they have to have a real boundary survey (the ones where you have to find and/or set all of the corners) of some sort. Sometimes they get around this by having the current owner sign what is called an owner affidavit stating that no changes have taken place since the last survey (which he has to have in hand).

Title Policy "Exceptions"

Here's a standard blurb (no. 6) that "excepts" ANYTHING that an accurate and complete survey or inspection would disclose.

Now in Oklahoma the standard (by State Statute) Mortgage Inspection cert plainly states that it IS NOT A SURVEY AND SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON AS SUCH.

Like I said, this poor fella is probably gonna get stuck hard in the pocketbook.

Mortgage Surveys Suck

"Here in Florida, banks won't (or maybe can't) issue a mortgage without a title insurance policy. And the title insurance policy can't have a survey exception on it. Title insurers around here also won't (maybe can't) delete the survey exception without a survey"

The Banks are getting a Lender's Policy that does not cover the buyer, although the buyer pays for it. The Bank requires a survey to support the policy that the buyer pays for and many times does not even receive a copy. The Bank's and the owner's interest are sometimes different. The bank is not so worried about who side of the line the fence is on as much as that the house is on the right lot. If there is a problem, the bank and not the owner is covered by the Title Policy. Even when the buyer gets his own policy, the title company will often except coverage on items and this is not explained to the buyer.

So the bank who makes loans, the title insurance company who sells policies and the mortgage surveyor who produces substandard products work together to promote their interests and the buyer has to pay to get screwed.

Title Policy "Exceptions"

I've heard that title insurance has the lowest payout ratio of any common type of insurance. What you quoted above it one of the reasons why. Even if you do get a fly by night survey and have the survey exception removed, if it's found to be in error, they still won't pay out because it says the survey has to be accurate and correct. I've often wondered if using low quality survey mills is actually not an advantage to the title industry, since they can use a bad survey as an "out".... And of course, it's usually title agents that get to select the surveyor.

Mortgage Surveys Suck

It is my belief that the quote of the $300 dollar survey originates from the similar cost of getting the "Survey Exception" added to their Title Policy.

A few years ago that was what the Title Company around here was pushing to get things closed so fast cause they could not wait until a proper survey could be made.

The Title Company opened the gates and a flood of zip zap surveys have appeared from over the horizons. I've followed some of these guys and you can hardly tell if they have been to some places they claim to have measured to.

:'(

Title Policy "Exceptions"

Property owners think because they have title insurance, they are covered, but they are wrong. As far as I know, the only thing that guarantees the location of property is an ALTA survey.

Mortgage Surveys Suck

It is my impression that in almost all cases, the title policy issued along with the other mortgage instruments only indemnifies the lender and affords no protection to the borrower at all.

So even if there is a title policy, and the insuror had to pay anything out, it would not be to the one on the hook for the mortgage.

Mortgage Surveys Suck

this is exactly why "mortgage surveys" should be outlawed and a full survey performed on every home sale, but the banking industry wants nothing to do with it. Many "surveyors" also defend them because they make their living off these frauds. These non-surveys do nothing except mislead the public.

Mortgage Surveys Suck

I believe we would have better results if mortgage surveyors were outlawed. In fact, I have seen many ALTA Surveys that were glorified mortgage surveys. We can't fix the banks and the title companies. We should first fix our profession and then educate the public about the practices of others that are not to their benefit.

My days back in MI they could be pretty lucrative if you didn't consider them a survey. Just a nice map to let the bank know that the house 1) existed, 2) was on the property, 3) no apparent encroachments existed. If any of those didn't fly, it became a boundary survey. Back in the 70's they were merely a written report, with no map. In the 80's they morphed into maps. In the 90's they were totally abused for unintended purposes. By late 90's they ceased to exist, as it should be.

Oddly, the BTR did not acknowledge them for anything and they were not regulated. Thus anybody could do them as a civil contract with no liability, as long as the bank would accept them.

I agree that they should be outlawed in any state and viewed as fraud. So arrest me, but I didn't make the rules. There are guys here that attempt to do them under the guise of a topographic survey, so they don't have to set any monuments or record it. That's a stretch IMVHO and the fallout is pending.

Mortgage Surveys Suck

Mortgage Surveys Suck as do prostate exams
But they are necessary

How otherwise would a perspective buyer know of existing violations?

Title Policy "Exceptions"

So basically all the title insurance covers is something they missed in the public records.

I'm glad Iowa doesn't have title insurance. The title companies check the records and update the abstract of title, which usually an attorney reads to point out potential problems. The cost seems to be about the same as insurance, and it is a lot clearer where you stand.

Unfortunately, surveys associated with real estate sales seem to be rare.