The question is when does a drawing or a data file drift into surveying?
I have a client who hired me to do two boundaries for a development, because it was being used by a number of firms I sent everything out in state plane except for the dimensions on the legal which are surface distances. I'm working with the main design firm and they will design everything on the surface, what they are putting together can't have .3' of shortage every 1000'.
So from the resource "specialists" I get an email telling me all my drawings are wrong cause they don't match the NAIP, the PLS, or the county GIS data and for some reason I'm 50' off with my state plane coordinates. I tell them they are using incorrect data, tell them why and they need to use everything I sent them and delete all the other junk.
Fine, we resolve the two boundary "issues".
Then yesterday the title person working on the project comes into the office in a BIG panic, he has a drawing showing the houses in an old subdivision along the west line of Section 21 lying west in Section 22 on the companies property.
Well the first thing I tell him is that isn't Section 22 it's Section 20 (labeled Section 22 on the drawing). Then I ask where he got the line showing the buildings over. From the same guy who told me my survey was "off".
So even though this isn't the area I'm working in for them, I had located the section line for another client about 5 years ago. I plot that on Google Earth and what do you know the houses are all clear (except a shed): no encroachments. I had gone through the same exercise in 1979 on that same line and that shed was over the line then.
It isn't a big deal but the title person was talking "trespass", "encroachment", having to resolve this "issue" and this resource "specialist" gave the title guy the fake drawing (don't know how else to describe it).
So is producing a drawing like this surveying? Where is the line defined? These people are no doubt being paid to produce this drivel, isn't that crossing the line?
Yes, he is practicing surveying.. Report him to your board.
For all we know he didn't word it that way, and said something like "the GIS map shows there to be houses across the line; you might want to look in to that(here's a printout)." Hopefully also stating that he would recommend a land survey. Maybe not: but I would discuss it with the guy first. Reporting someone from a second-party hearsay report, is a little premature in my opinion. (of course I guess you also have some first-hand experience with the guy. Regardless, I think discussing it with him directly is in order. Making him aware that he is out of line is the first step)
There's a fine line, no problem with using some of the junky section lines for a picture for internal planning, just don't lay them over the top of a photo and give it out when it's just a GCDB junk line and act like it means anything.
The board isn't going to be interested in anyone who isn't licensed. And I'm pretty sure they don't want to police the GIS industry, they have enough to do.
Anybody that whips out a drawing and begins to lecture anyone on where boundaries should be located is practicing surveying.
Especially when the drawing does not bear the certification, signature and seal of an actual licensed surveyor.
It is amazing how they continue to rely upon sketches from armatures and unknown authors more than they rely upon actual survey drawings.
Is is just me, why does it happen that the newest title, banker, lawyer or appraisal district/tax department employee, that is fresh from their latest seminar and/or training trip that always starts the lecture with the surveyor.
After being pressed on the matter by every employee, I've been known to hang up, call their boss, tell them that their employees did not learn anything at their last seminar. If they expected me to teach them, then send the next seminar check to me and then I will take the time to tell them the facts.
Are you being paid to help these people understand that GIS means Get It Surveyed?
If yes, good, charge them more.
If no, then why not?
It is a fine line. I agree. The board probably can't "police" anyone outside the licensees they are overseeing. But if it's wrong and blatent, perhaps they would refer it to the prosecutor's office. It is an "unlawful" act at least in this state to practice surveying without a license. I would think it would be more likely to be considered if the person caused harm to someone. Alerting them to an "encroachment" might be getting awful close to harming the public especially if it ends up costing someone a lot of money only to find out that the alert was unfounded.
why do you believe the board only is interested in licensees? in some states the jurisdiction is limited to licensees but then the board will forward the unlicensed practice complaint to the AG. I think we are our own worst enemies sometimes, we fail to protect the public by non-action and then wonder why this continues.
Most Boards take a keen interest in un-licensed practice. They generally issue a cease and desist and forward it to the appropriate prosecutor...
Pretty much how it works here, they regulate the licensed people, if these people don't advertise surveying or take surveying jobs, and these people don't, then the board isn't going to deal with it.
Anyway, I'd rather make my point with them and not through the board, I'm extremely tired of hearing that there are "disclaimers" on these drawings, this one is way out of line. You can't disclaim away your work.
The idea of using the GCDB stuff, calling it PLS and showing it on a drawing overlaid across some houses is a bridge too far.
This would have had real world consequences.
Just got done "talking" with the title guy who is my ally in all this, frankly, exhausting process and now the cad guy says there is a sliver created by my new boundary.
Yeah between the real line and the fake line, OMG remove those GCBD lines, they can't seem to bring themselves to do it; he's off to have ANOTHER talk with them.
It's like talking to an alien creature.
No, I'm not being paid by them, they are the second firm hired to do some work for my client, the first firm fired their client.
My client is the main company, the cad gis guy works for someone who is not my client.
And it's not my problem until the title guy started to question exactly what the he!! was going on and drug me into it. The simple solution was to have me give them the section/property lines. But they never asked me too, probably I'm too expensive. You know all you really have to do is download them!!:-(
Most BOR were setup with the authority to police the industry and decide where and when and who must practice with a license.
The defense attorneys have found the loophole where the BOR were not given the effective authority and power to penalize the guilty parties that are practicing without a license.
Some state governments have enacted and given some power to the BOR and some have not, and most of that power is very limited.
Many of these unlicensed groups come and go under different names and in different regions and states.
That is why it is passed on the the AG office and they deal with things on a case to case budgeted schedule.
Other situations are left to be fought in civil courts thru personal lawsuits.
Many have moved on and operating under another name in another area before the responsible party can be found.