Misguided author ?
http://personalliberty.com/monuments-move-landowners-lose-a-surveyors-dirty-little-secret/
Derek
Gotta find my "rudder and sail."
Wow.....and he names the surveyor by name. And some kind of collusion between them and the professional engineers and surveyors? Someone needs to write an article about reporters prosecuting professionals in the public eye with no trial or defense of the prosecuted. He could ruin this guys business. It should at least be investigated first by boundary experts.
Yep, I carried away a hundred acres in my pocket last week. Like Johnny Cash, I got it one piece at a time!
The paranoid, Sky-is-falling comments are funny, well maybe sad, before the Internet it was harder to feed your paranoia and less widespread or at least visible.
The practice he complains about is not new, it's part of the American psyche. I have notes from 1880 where the surveyor pincushions the "apparent center of section" stake.
I couldn't help myself but post in his comments section. We don't even know that this surveyor is actually doing what that guy says he is.
Tom Adams, post: 363295, member: 7285 wrote: I couldn't help myself but post in his comments section. We don't even know that this surveyor is actually doing what that guy says he is.
Someone attributes the Surveyor's practice to a certain recent political leaning as if fifty or 100 years ago Surveyors weren't doing the same thing, worse in some ways, in some counties here in the 1940s and 1950s Surveyors only staked the Deed even ignoring senior rights.
WOW! Just, WOW!
Those who can string words together into long, obfuscating sentences can fire up all sorts of ignorant people to do incredibly silly things. Centuries ago, kings learned to have such people permanently removed from the gene pool for the good of the masses.
Where is the bull crap :poop:
Smilie?
Man, now I gotta go get some popcorn!:-D
Here is a current case in ARKANSAS. Connie Watkins v. The Surveyor, The Board, and The State Surveyor for ignoring original monuments, setting math monuments, and the Board covering it up. Follow the details:
https://caseinfo.aoc.arkansas.gov/cconnect/PROD/public/ck_public_qry_main.cp_main_idx
Search by person's name
13777240
CONNIE WATKINS
Aliases: ,WATKINS, CONNIE Case: 60CV-15-4085 CONNIE WATKINS ET AL V ARK AGRICULTURE DEPT ET AL
Status: PLAINTIFF 28-AUG-15 , HON. TIM FOX - 6TH DIVISION PULASKI CIRCUIT COURT
See complaint/petition filed (there are two parts)
Enjoy
DDSM
Sent from my iPhone
To a certain extent I agree with the general attitude of the article. I know nothing about the area or surveyors written about. The article refers to math stakeout and retracement and then goes on the define retracement as only the original lines. That''s generally correct but there is a third way that involves the establishment doctrines. This varies state to state but in Utah the law clearly defines how boundaries get fixed (established by landowner actions and time) in place. This involves applying the common law to the ÛÏretracementÛ side of land surveying. This is where the ÛÏland surveying profession has gone off the rails.Û I don't think is so much fraud as just ignorance to the law and it does go from the bottom to the top of the profession. I have seen some stuff that I would consider fraud though where a surveyor seemed to ÛÏmake upÛ a stone needed to complete and base the work on to get paid.
In my view the only way surveyors are going to ÛÏprotect the publicÛ is to learn and apply the common and statutory law in their state. Refusing to do this and they deserve to be taken out of the equation as the stewards of land boundaries in the US.
The other side of this, at least where I live, is the public's lack of care of the PLSS and other care in marking and preserving land boundaries. They didn't care for and preserve the original corners, they haven't written deeds from survey measurements and noted calls to corner markers (or even placed them), proper records have not been kept. Most of all they have refused to pay for real quality survey work and it continues to this very day. Then they complain when a surveyor can't confidently locate their boundary for some paltry sum of money. So in the end the public is getting what they were not willing to pay for. The courts have recognized this and therefore provided the answer in the establishment doctrines, landowners, you sleep in the bed you made.
Our Board had 2 Surveyors on it when this started. One was a dedicated member and the other was a PELS sitting as an Engineer. They don't have the Legislative authority to impose solutions on members of the public. The grain of truth sprinkled on this crap sandwich of an article is that some Surveyors do not diligently search for and honor evidence of original location.
I don't know enough about this particular case to comnent. Neither does the 'author'.
LRDay, post: 363314, member: 571 wrote: To a certain extent I agree with the general attitude of the article. I know nothing about the area or surveyors written about. The article refers to math stakeout and retracement and then goes on the define retracement as only the original lines. That''s generally correct but there is a third way that involves the establishment doctrines. This varies state to state but in Utah the law clearly defines how boundaries get fixed (established by landowner actions and time) in place. This involves applying the common law to the ÛÏretracementÛ side of land surveying. This is where the ÛÏland surveying profession has gone off the rails.Û I don't think is so much fraud as just ignorance to the law and it does go from the bottom to the top of the profession. I have seen some stuff that I would consider fraud though where a surveyor seemed to ÛÏmake upÛ a stone needed to complete and base the work on to get paid.
In my view the only way surveyors are going to ÛÏprotect the publicÛ is to learn and apply the common and statutory law in their state. Refusing to do this and they deserve to be taken out of the equation as the stewards of land boundaries in the US.
The other side of this, at least where I live, is the public's lack of care of the PLSS and other care in marking and preserving land boundaries. They didn't care for and preserve the original corners, they haven't written deeds from survey measurements and noted calls to corner markers (or even placed them), proper records have not been kept. Most of all they have refused to pay for real quality survey work and it continues to this very day. Then they complain when a surveyor can't confidently locate their boundary for some paltry sum of money. So in the end the public is getting what they were not willing to pay for. The courts have recognized this and therefore provided the answer in the establishment doctrines, landowners, you sleep in the bed you made.
I agree with you wholeheartedly Leon. The guy even referenced Jeff Lucas. He does have some kind of clue. What bothers me is right at the surface he (a surveyor) has accused, named, trashed the surveyor for working a scam. I don't see where he interviewed the surveyor, I don't know for a fact that the surveyor always runs around staking the math with no regard to physical evidence, I don't know anything. Someone needs to put together an article about news reporters working scams of sensationalizing pieces for the money regardless of who's career it ruins. The surveyor should be taken to task in court and by the board if their work is grossly negligent. And the writer of the article should be finding out the surveyor's side, if they are going to go into such detail of how awful their work is.
Tom Adams, post: 363320, member: 7285 wrote: I agree with you wholeheartedly Leon. The guy even referenced Jeff Lucas. He does have some kind of clue. What bothers me is right at the surface he (a surveyor) has accused, named, trashed the surveyor for working a scam. I don't see where he interviewed the surveyor, I don't know for a fact that the surveyor always runs around staking the math with no regard to physical evidence, I don't know anything. Someone needs to put together an article about news reporters working scams of sensationalizing pieces for the money regardless of who's career it ruins. The surveyor should be taken to task in court and by the board if their work is grossly negligent. And the writer of the article should be finding out the surveyor's side, if they are going to go into such detail of how awful their work is.
Go watch the 30 for 30 "Fantastic Lies" on ESPN.....
There's certainly surveyors out there that I would love to strangle and there's probably someone out there that at some point wanted to strangle me. But, I thought it profoundly ironic that the author, a journalist, cried about another profession not being held accountable for their actions. Imagine if surveyors were able to withhold their sources......
DEREK G. GRAHAM OLS OLIP, post: 363290, member: 285 wrote: Misguided author ?
http://personalliberty.com/monuments-move-landowners-lose-a-surveyors-dirty-little-secret/
Derek
Author? who is the Author? it was posted on The Bob Livingston page... did he write it or just copy/paste from some other source? Is Bob Livingston a surveyor or just another wanabe publisher?
It is certainly misguided and more likely libelous to make such statements. I blame this on Jeffrey Lucas and his constant nagging about the "slapping math on the ground" arguments that are a continuous theme of his writings.
In my entire career I have known many surveyors who were respectable and only a few who were not. If this type of fraud is occurring in all 50 states as attributed to Lucas then let him be the Lone Ranger to start the prosecution.
It seems to me whenever there is trouble for surveyors the name Lucas is mentioned. He has anointed himself as the inquisitor.
Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.
Lucas is always looking for trouble, perhapsthe he creates it. He makes sweeping judgments about all, but he is actually only familiar with his home town... In my opinion
not my real name, post: 363456, member: 8199 wrote: It is certainly misguided and more likely libelous to make such statements. I blame this on Jeffrey Lucas and his constant nagging about the "slapping math on the ground" arguments that are a continuous theme of his writings.
In my entire career I have known many surveyors who were respectable and only a few who were not. If this type of fraud is occurring in all 50 states as attributed to Lucas then let him be the Lone Ranger to start the prosecution.
It seems to me whenever there is trouble for surveyors the name Lucas is mentioned. He has anointed himself as the inquisitor.
The truth hurts.