What is the 411 on Millman National Land Services? That firm, which is based in Ohio, has requested a quote for a handful of ALTA surveys in Ohio...but only field work. Apparently Millman will prepare the drawing based upon your field work and Millman will sign the survey...but this seems to be a violation of Ohio's standards. Or do you view this as a standard sub-contract? Anybody have any insight? - Thanx -
I got a request a while ago for the same here in Washington. Seemed a direct violation, so, I forwarded to the Board. Got a new request a few days ago no longer stating anything about them doing any of the work.
I cant stand any of them . They all need to die off. I recently had one call me because The company is also a Title company aswell .I did the survey a couple years ago . I said I would do it , but I would use my border and work for the client . They said no they were going to make me sign a contract with them . I told them I only work for the client . The contract was crazy . Said I could not contact the client , had penalties for being late etc, had to use there border , a bunch of other crazyness . I asked if surveyors really sign this crap . I strung them along for a week or so . I hope they missed there timeline bunch of scabs .
As long as surveyors keep contracting out to these scabs, they can forget about being looked upon as "Professionals".
Whenever these guys get turned over to State boards they get issued "cease and desist" orders from the board. They have no state COA, so, usually they are in violation.
With all of the good local guys there's no need for out of state clowns trying to make a fast buck off your efforts.
The problem is they provide a service that has value. If you're trying to get surveys of 50 different sites in 13 states, are you going to round up the surveyors yourself, or are you going to contract it out? Now, I would agree that the way some of these firms operate is more along the lines of used car dealers, but they aren't all that way. I have had positive experiences with a couple.
I address this very issue in my Ethics workshop. Indeed there is a place for brokers. There is also a way to do business with them - or not. Not all are bad. Many are BAD.
I do not question the validity of a survey broker as that is up to each individual surveyor to decide if he wants that kind of work. However, I think it is unethical to perform only the field work and have another surveyor (broker or not) sign and seal work that was not prepared under his direct supervision. Does anybody else feel it is OK to do "field work only" and let a different surveyor a hundred miles away sign and seal the ALTA?
> I do not question the validity of a survey broker as that is up to each individual surveyor to decide if he wants that kind of work. However, I think it is unethical to perform only the field work and have another surveyor (broker or not) sign and seal work that was not prepared under his direct supervision. Does anybody else feel it is OK to do "field work only" and let a different surveyor a hundred miles away sign and seal the ALTA?
I agree with you. The survey brokers that I have worked with and had a positive experience did not operate this way.
This company is not far from me. In theory I don' think it would be unethical to subcontract field work to a qualified company as long as the work was done to the specifications and acceptance of the contracting firm. In reality I think it would be difficult to keep control and direct supervision in an arrangement like this. I personally wouldn't get involved sounds like more hassle than its worth.
About 15 years ago I did one job for International Land Services, or some similar name. That was the situation. A major owner of convenience stores was selling something like 80 of them in one fell swoop to a buyer. I forget precisely but it seems like about 15 to 20 different States were involved. Naturally, the client would prefer to see virtually identical plats.
I think the contract was 19 pages long and the procedure specifications was more pages than that. One standard for drafting was to be used by every surveyor involved regardless of our own preferences.
We never did another one of these because the broker didn't want to pay until they got paid which was after they were able to deliver all 80 plats. I was not in a position at the time to wait that long for payment.
Over the years, due to management, I have had to do several surveys for ILS, who have since changed their name.
I will not publish my opinion of their ethics on a public forum.
Given a choice I will not work for them again.
Several years back the Oklahoma Board of Registration published their opinion of them with a cease and desist order or something very similar thereto. It seems that they were changing signed and sealed originals without the knowledge and permission of the signing surveyor. Nuff Said.
BTW, the last I checked, I personally was on a do not use list at ILS. I considered that a compliment.
B-)
What is ILS's new name?
> What is ILS's new name?
I think it was taken over by First American.
Mark Fuller, Public Member of the OK Board used to run it. It seems he is now with another company.
Check With Paden Cash, He is in the area.
I think Kent and a few of you guys need a website like this...maybe they could get a bit more action and draw a plumb bob when moving to the front of the page...
