Here's the latest -- I was out of town when this ruling came down and didn't hear about it till now:
http://www.sunjournal.com/state/story/990835
I have it on fairly reliable authority that this decision will be appealed. Meanwhile the legislature is considering a response:
http://www.theforecaster.net/content/n-cumbsimpson
I'm glad to see these kinds of rulings come down. I pay $5 a page per plat page in one county, which is okay, I'm not complaining about that. But the clerk prints the files from TIF images from her computer. I inquired if the county makes these available on CD, to save me time and gas money, etc. She said yes, but they still charge $5 per page, plus additional fees for copying it. She said the whole county, which is about 120 plat books of 100 pages each (12,000 pages) costs around $80,000. That's a lot of gas money ...
The said part is, this guy spent all this money suing counties trying to get his business idea off the ground, now that he's won, he's just opened the door to competitors to steal his buiness idea with a much lower start-up cost.
Nice, I'll start my letters to the counties now. I've thought it somewhat antiquated that Maine maintained a per page charge, and yet Florida is quite happy to have scanned everything since the mid-80's and posted most of it on the internet for free download. (if you don't mind the watermark that says "Not a Certified Copy" emblazened across the document).
My concern is that if MacImage prevails, there will be no incentive for the counties to continue to scan the older documents and post them online. The Franklin County Registry's online deeds only go back to the mid - 1980's and some neighboring counties go back not much farther.
ky & il
In western Kentucky and southern Illinois, most of the county
clerks will let you use a no-flash camera, small printer or a
hand-held scanner. If you want to bring a laptop and a desktop
and scan deed books, just give them a day's notice. Most states
have an open records policy or a public information act. You
have the right to copy records.
Paul:
You can pretty much do that here too. But you have to go to the Registry during their regular hours, which can involve lots of travel. And the smaller registries are crowded and cramped. Kennebec County has everything -- plans and deeds -- from 1799 through yesterday up online. Even though it's my home county, this saves me an hour and a half of driving for almost every job I do, and has allowed me much more flexible scheduling. The cost of copies is the least of my concerns. I'd like to see all the registries get there.
Social Security Numbers on mortgages & the like
represent a privacy issue in Louisiana. The Clerks of Court have to "sanitize" such documents while scanning. I am told it represents a significant problem here.
Social Security Numbers on mortgages & the like
Nassau County, NY had to stop operation of their on line deed search function due to the SSN issue.
Now you need to go down to the courthouse in person.
Social Security Numbers on mortgages & the like
The way I understand it here, Maryland has an identity theft law that prohibits any business that has your SSN or drivers license numberfrom any act that would "publicly display" it.
Since mortgages are filed among public land records, they're prohibited from placing them on any document that might be recorded.
For any document prior to the implementation of these acts (2005-ish), you can contact the state archives (who manages the online digital copies of all the deeds from every county in the state) and request that they black out the information.
What you will likely see now is a much higher per-page recording fee, and a more realistic copying fee. If the registers are supposed to be self supporting, yet can't recover their fees through copies, then the act of recording must take the burdon.
Social Security Numbers
Amazing what the internet has wrought.
It wasn't so long ago (back before the turn of the century!!!), police were telling us to etch our SSN's on all our valuable electronics and other possessions, so they could be traced and returned if stolen.
Social Security Numbers
In the late 70's after loosing a bunch of tools from the shop, I asked the Sheriff if putting my SS number on all of the replacements was a good way to mark them. His answer was no, he said that the SS Administration would not release the name of the holder of that number, even to the police agencies, so there was no way to locate the owner, even with that number in hand. He told me to use my Drivers License number, which could be traced back to me if they were found on stolen items. After the etching job that number is embedded into my brain and quickly available when asked for it. Three numbers are in the memory banks, My service number, the SS number and my Drivers License number.
jud
security
I heard of a surveyor getting straight-armed due to the SSN issue.
Unless the scanner has a top-notch Twain reader, you might as well
look for SSN manually.
The SSN argument is bogus. Joe Thief gets out of jail, walks down
the street one back to the county clerk's office and manually opens
the deed books to find a SSN. He copies it down using the clerk's pencil
and scratch paper and starts to steal the SSN identity. It did not cost
the thief a cent -- no on-line or no scanning involved.
security
> ... Joe Thief gets out of jail, walks down
> the street one block to the county clerk's office and manually opens
> the deed books to find a new SSN...
In South Florida they made it more difficult. When you walk into the clerk's office, you get to sit at a computer and search the same website you get to search from your house. It's almost impossible to actually touch the record books in person. Before they went to computers, you sat at a Microfiche station and searched the tapes. Conversion from tapes to internet was as simple as having the tapes scanned.
Another quirk in Florida is that many counties have taken their recorded plats off-line, and require you to visit the courthouse and pay them $5 per sheet to obtain them. I much prefer having them digitally.
> Here's the latest -- I was out of town when this ruling came down and didn't hear about it till now:
>
> http://www.sunjournal.com/state/story/990835
>
> I have it on fairly reliable authority that this decision will be appealed. Meanwhile the legislature is considering a response:
>
> http://www.theforecaster.net/content/n-cumbsimpson
Just another scam raiding the public treasury. That judge should be impeached. The counties have to recoup their costs creating the documents and maintaining them, if they don't, guess who pays? Of course the taxpayer will have to make up the shortfall while the so called business man gets rich off the public trough.
> I'm glad to see these kinds of rulings come down. I pay $5 a page per plat page in one county, which is okay, I'm not complaining about that. But the clerk prints the files from TIF images from her computer. I inquired if the county makes these available on CD, to save me time and gas money, etc. She said yes, but they still charge $5 per page, plus additional fees for copying it. She said the whole county, which is about 120 plat books of 100 pages each (12,000 pages) costs around $80,000. That's a lot of gas money ...
There is a county to the north of me, the records are all on-line, but you have to subscribe...or you can go into their office and use their computers for free...and their explanation is that this is because they don't have enough money.
I shook my head and didn't even ask how it saves money to maintain computers in their lobby. Whatever, I think that having the docs free and available is a service to the general public, not us surveyors. If we need it we pay, and the costs get passed to the client.
Our county it is all on-line and free. Personally, I am for transparency.
> (if you don't mind the watermark that says "Not a Certified Copy" emblazened across the document).
I hate that stamp...it always falls right on critical curve info!!@#@@#@@@#@
> The counties have to recoup their costs creating the documents
They don't pay for their creation. My clients do.
> and maintaining them, if they don't, guess who pays?
It costs a lot of money to record something, I think the person recording it has already paid. (It may be different in your state/county.)