Lowballers

Yeah, we just got lowballed by one of those "National Survey" companies. You know the kind, supposedly registered in ALL states and have done "thousands" of ALTA/ACSM surveys.
It's going to be fun to watch them lose their shirts on this project. Two sites involved. We have done ALL of the survey work on this project since it was a bare lot. We added extra research time because of the problems that we KNOW will arise. One problem is that the person in charge of the "land section" NEVER filed the plats and descriptions that we provided. Land has been transfered bu "declarations" and maybe one of two of the plats that we made for a ton of utility easements and the like.
In the past, ALL of the ALTA Title Insurance commitment Reports reflected the description for the overall parcel. It was all a mess. We finally got one parcel done the way it should have been done on Revision 14 of the Title commitment. We kept trying to tell them about the problems, but the paralegals knew more than we did.
The lowballers will survey 2 of the remaining parcels. If they get the normal TCR, they will unaware of what's going on. He He He!!! If it's like last time, they may be looking at 14 revisions each on 2 plats.
Will I give them copies of our previous work?? 90% of the files and electronic data was messed up in a flood we had a couple of years back, so there's not much to give them. ( I do have some personal copies on my computer at home but they are not complete. i could complete them rather quickly though. If I wanted to. :-X )
Good luck out of state lowballers!! You will have fun with this one. Just remember, this is a multi-million dollar building and you are dealing with a few Federal Agencies on part of this. If it doesn't "look right" to them, they will expect you to fix it for free. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Have fun y'all!!!:-D

boo hoo

where I live 600'x600' would go for less than $1000... so quit your belly aching

BTW, no one ever lost there shirt on a 8 acre boundary survey for 2600.... I would do one every day for 2600 bucks the rest of the year. $1.50 per foot is off the chart.

Whenever I get asked for a 'bid' on a subdivision I save my client and myself alot of time and direct them to the most reputable lowest cost surveyor I know. Bids are for contractors, not professionals.

go now and find all of the corners before they have a chance to mobilize. don't mark them though.

once you find them all drive approximately four new irons per corner at varying intervals within a 6' radius of each of the found corners (i like to keep a stash of different types of pins rusting out behind my shed for just this type work so they look weathered). leave them all sticking up 6 inches so the are easy to find. weathered flagging really adds to the chaos, but weathering flagging is only for the advanced prankster.

sleep well knowing you have done your part to create survey anarchy.

Too little information for sympathy. $4600.00 would be the survey from Hell to rate $4600.00 around here. I just priced a pretty tough sectional 40 acre survey here with about 10 adjoiners and a big wooded creek valley running through the middle of it and apparent building encroachments from the neighbors, for $3700.00 dollars and the lady had already received several, apparently substantially cheaper, prices.

I was asked by a national coordinator for a quote to update a commercial center I did several years ago. I'm on that site every week and I know there have been no changes, but, they wanted me to plot all of the easements in color, and insert photos into the drawing using their horrible format. I told them a regular update would be $1800 but none of the fancy stuff they wanted. They apparently hired someone else.

Two weeks ago I noticed that all of the monuments have been flagged or painted, but other than that there is zero evidence of survey work. No yellow keil in the parking lot, no mag nails for temporary traverse points, not a sign of a survey crew except for the flagged monuments. Strange.

Bruce - will you give these folks a copy of your old ALTA survey if they ask you for one?

The record of survey was filed and they can pull that on line. I bet they already have a print of the ALTA survey, and I'm wondering if they found a way to scan that into AutoCAD to save the bother of, you know, actually surveying the site. I will pretty much share anything, but I do draw the line on someone who is competing with me on the same site.

Get tired of the use of the word Lowballer's. If there is such a thing, they won't last long and if they have a lower overhead than you, you won't last long. Don't think it is fair to clients to be forced to use an expensive high overhead company when there are firms that have intentionally kept their overhead low, who probably would do a better job simply because the license is in the field, and keeping their equipment cost down to a manageable level. Those providing that service are not lowballer's and probably will remain in business much longer than those high overhead firms, where a bad month would drain their reserves.
jud

Well, I'm the license in the field, my overhead is near zero, and the equipment is long paid for, which is why I make a decent profit.

I'm with you Jud! I myself have my own business with my office being in my house. I have very minimal overhead and NO employees. I give a fair price for every job based on exactly what has to be done, nothing "extra". I don't consider myself a "low-baller" in any manner. Been in business for myself for over eight years now and always seem to have plenty of work. With today's technology and equipment, I find that everything that needs to be done in the field can be done by one person....me! Just saying!

The really stupid surveyors are those with low overhead who think that is some excuse to charge less to the client. It's really more of an opportunity to be more profitable for the same amount of work.

Yeah for Holy Cow. You get it. (What's surprising is how many don't.)

Exactly, Cow. It amazes me that surveyors haven't been able to figure out that one simple fact, when ALL attorneys, doctors, plumbers, and paper-boys everywhere seem to inherently get it. Some of the worst business people on the planet are surveyors. God only knows why.

:good: :good:

In my experience the truest "lowballers" do not at all fit this stereotype of being lone surveyors running a lean and mean operation out of the garage, but rather are larger civil engineering and land surveying companies.

The first phase is to take jobs at a break even rate just to keep key people around. The second phase comes into play when the company is down to key survey personnel.

Then they need to keep the surveyors around lest they have to hire outside the company for what would be in house surveying. At this point the survey department can operate entirely at a loss and still be kept around with guys going out month after month on looser projects. The lone wolf can certainly not afford to loose that much money.

This phenomena can be driven further when the company is headed by civil engineers who view surveying as a necessary evil.

The finger always gets pointed at the little guy, and in some cases I am sure they deserve it but from what I have seen with the bulk is the big companies eating their own feet.

0.02

Profit is the name of the game, the #1 goal of any business is to make money. This was a heavy wooded area, line to cut blaze and paint, pins at corners with wood posts and rocks, and they wanted elev's on every corner and all over the lot so topo too, its for a wireless internet tower so had to find and locate the tallest tree on the lot, plus its about an hour drive from the office...

We have low overhead too, WRT office in the house, robots and GPS, only need another hand when cutting line and lugging gear. Still have truck payments, gas and maintainance, insurance up the wazu, pins to buy, office supplies etc so not sure if there is such a thing as "low" overhead.

BTW I was not belly aching or looking for sympathy, just throwing it out there as it was on my mind and thought I would share. Someone doing this for $1000 is just crazy, appanently you dont put much value on your work. This company has been running for 25 years so we must be doing something right.

I like snoop's idea, if I have the time I might just do that...lol

> go now and find all of the corners before they have a chance to mobilize. don't mark them though.
>
> once you find them all drive approximately four new irons per corner at varying intervals within a 6' radius of each of the found corners (i like to keep a stash of different types of pins rusting out behind my shed for just this type work so they look weathered). leave them all sticking up 6 inches so the are easy to find. weathered flagging really adds to the chaos, but weathering flagging is only for the advanced prankster.
>
> sleep well knowing you have done your part to create survey anarchy.

WOW, this is off the charts, it is borderline illegal and imho unethical, petty and down right wrong. this kind of action and attitude does more harm to our profession than the low ballers. if a guy can do a job cheaper than someone else then so be it. would you want all the other surveyors trying to sabatage your projects that you where low bidder on?

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