Lost two jobs to brokers this week

Only if we choose to die. You're not the only one to lose to something of this nature. It happens to all of us even in good times.

Don't let it frustrate you too much.

I reckon the Alabama outfit that got undercut by the New York outfit on that job in New Orleans had to take it out on somebody.... (wink wink nod nod)

Damn, and I thought I was cheap for doing an update ALTA on a 97 acre shopping center for $25,000.

That is tough. I often wonder how/why the lowballers do that. Seems like it should catch up to them sooner or later. In the meantime, all the rest suffer.

Here is one with a different twist. A long time client really wanted me to do a job, similar to many others that I do for them (photo control of a county). But, the contracting agency said they MUST have 10% minority/disavantaged participation. The firm they contacted wanted FOUR times what I would charge, and I am reasonable (not cheap, not overpriced). It seems they know they can charge that since they are the only MDB in the area of the project. Not the first time, I have lost projects several times to more expensive minority firms, since the control part of a project often fits the "10%" requirement.

> The firm they contacted wanted FOUR times what I would charge

So next time tell them you'll do the job for twice your normal fee and meet the MBE requirement, too. Then put a MBE firm under contract at 50% of the fee for "professional services."

How on earth can one survey a MALL containing 100 acres for $6400.00 to the ALTA/ACSM standard??!!!!

You can't even fly that for $6400!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel your pain

I recently lost an ALTA project - broker job -
They would not tell me what the 'winning' bid was.
But said it was nearly 1/2 of my proposal.

My RFP was $11,250

Basic ALTA, no topo no buried utilities

Shopping Mall
There are 56 corners and a multitude of easements
There are 46 exceptions in schedule B2

-Race to the bottom-

Thank gosh I'm not at the point of thinking like this but $6400 is wages for a two-man crew and a draftsman for 2 weeks. They might break even if you don't count insurance, rent, utilities, etc., etc...

You didn't lose it to this guy did you?

MORON THAT FORGED OTHER SURVEYORS' SIGNATURE

Also, how in the heck is a firm from Alabama going to go to Arizona to do a survey?

Tommy

That's certainly going to add to their losses in getting the ALTA done, isn't it? I assume they have somebody in Arizona that will sign and stamp their survey for a few bucks. A nice Mexican dinner and a few XX's can be very persuasive.

P.S. both of my parents are from Arizona and I've never tasted better Mexican food than what I have eaten there. Back to your regularly scheduled argument...

> Fellow Surveyors we are dying breed.

:-O :-@ :'( :bad: :rain: :beer: :beer: :beer: :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink: :clock:

> You didn't lose it to this guy did you?
>
> MORON THAT FORGED OTHER SURVEYORS' SIGNATURE
>

Wow...seven pages of violations and he gets a $1000 fine and a two year suspension of his license?

Is that a slap on the wrist or a pat on the head?

Rick

Is the firm registered in AZ? If not, I would not be opposed to letting both the client and the Board know...

ARTICLE 3. REGULATORY PROVISIONS

A. A firm shall not engage in the practice of any Board regulated profession or occupation unless the firm is registered with the Board and the professional services are conducted under the full authority and responsible charge of a principal of the firm, who is also a registrant.

For 6th PM...

I'm not trying to be a contrarian, but isn't it possible that the low-baller who got the broker's work had already surveyed the property in recent memory and was going to do an update? Maybe nothing had hardly changed since the last survey. Send a crew out to do a walk-around, make sure the corners are still there, check for any encroachments, locate any new improvements, etc. The title exceptions are probably typed up and ready to be re-numbered in someones files already.

When you start to lose work pricing update surveys to people who have to start from scratch, then we should all be very worried.

Mike

Say you are down to your last crew...If you let them go, you have no one to service your existing clients when (if) they call.

So, you have them doing busy work, they cost you money.

Now, you can have them go out and work, sure they only return 50% on what they cost, but at least that is less than returning 0%.

The math doesn't work out long term, but it does work in a "hoping for recovery" short term plan.

Still sucks...

Mike

> I'm not trying to be a contrarian, but isn't it possible that the low-baller who got the broker's work had already surveyed the property in recent memory and was going to do an update? Maybe nothing had hardly changed since the last survey. Send a crew out to do a walk-around, make sure the corners are still there, check for any encroachments, locate any new improvements, etc. The title exceptions are probably typed up and ready to be re-numbered in someones files already.
>
> When you start to lose work pricing update surveys to people who have to start from scratch, then we should all be very worried.
>
> Mike

Mike,

You are probably correct about it being 'updated' by another firm.
However, there was/is no survey on file with the county (recording state)

BUT - The troubling issue here (aside from the low-baller) is that this project was solicited via a broker. A broker who very well may have charged the client something near the upper proposal/s and engaged the low-baller to prepare the ALTA at 1/2 fee and he (the broker) pocketed the difference.

It is hardly fair practice when a company has clients that they work for 50% or less of their time that provides 80% or more of their income and then offer to do other work to fill in the missing hours for their staff and crews with low ball fees that do not produce profit.

I am sure that violates some federal law.

Like 6th said, they get by with it because the broker elevates the surveyor's fee to a fair market value, making it within guidelines of the law.

It may be a process that pays, but the ones not doing any actual work are the ones making all the profit and it keeps any other surveyor from competing.

For Mike...

Lets presume for a minute this is the case; how much money did he leave on the table by pricing his work at that price? Work smarter,not harder. That ridiculous price, even for a "update" is just shooting yourself and others in the foot. People will come to expect that as the "fair" price for taking on the liability and will think all these others out there are just ripping them off. Do you think the realtor and the lawyer involved give a break like that because they did the closing before? That is just stupidity.

On a similar story I was ask to do some construction staking today and was provided an ALTA that was used for the design of the project. After reviewing the plans, the building has zero tolerance on three properly lines. So first thing I go back to review is the ALTA and guess what I found the map is based off 2 centerline monuments and calc record. The two alleys are shown to be .75 short and not figured into the record boundary. Next look to see what he found or set for corners, note on plan "Property corners not set, calculated record position.

I know as soon as I would do something like this, I would get a letter form the state board.