Leica MS50

The MS50 is impressive. I'm hoping to get my hands on one by the end of the year if we stay with Leica.

The CS15 is definitely Leica's weak point. The keyboard is mediocre, the screen is dim and dull... They know it. I sat down with them a couple months ago and they admitted that it's not up to par but yet they aren't revamping it soon. They are making small changes to it but it will be a little while before its replaced.

Oh, also SmartWorx Viva...? Big time weak point.

I wasn't nuts about Smartworx but I could live with it. Not sure that I'd want to have to train crews on it though.

It is a lovely machine! I have been using one for the last 4 months and as far as I am concerned you cannot get better!

My only gripe, and a major one at that, was a massive 50" index error in the vertical circle from new. I thought Leica had very strict quality controls.

Oh, and ours is badged as the TS50! How on earth do these things slip through the cracks???

Wow good question. Once you got the indexing error adjusted out has it held good?

I've always liked the Trimble S-series robots but there were a couple things with the MS50 that really impressed me, mainly the scanning and the ability to annotate photos in the field.

Is it possible to remove the annotation from the photos in the office if necessary?

Yes it has held good and i am now confident in using it in industrial applications.

To be honest i haven't really played around with annotating photos so i cant really comment on that.

Lee,

No.. on the removal of the annotations. Once the user draws or labels anything with that function and saves it the annotations are permanently saved to the file. I always tell clients if they want a clean picture that they need to take multiple images. You can tag as many photos as you want to a point in the database. So you could take two images, tag them both to the same point and then annotate only one of them.

Lee,

On the point about the CF card making this "Old Technology".... sometimes you need to know why things are designed in certain ways. The previous system for Leica was System1200. Both the TPS and GPS units ran on CF cards and the design at the start of System1200 in 2004 the user could swap the data between by exchanging the CF card and continue to work in the same job. Yes you physically had to swap the cards but in 2004 that was a big step to have a database that worked on both sides of the equipment. So when Viva was designed Leica still allows jobs created on Viva to continue to work in System1200. So for customers who still had a mix of System1200 and Viva they could started a job in System1200 and then insert the CF card into the Viva controller and keep working. You can also start a job in Viva and then place the CF card back into System1200 instruments.

The reason for the CF card in the CS Controller is to help users that had older System1200 could still utilize both System1200 and Viva.

The only thing that I would have like to see is that some of the actually System1200 receivers could still work with the Viva controller directly but there were to many physical changes. For example the Viva had a newer Bluetooth system than the older System1200 Smart Antennas and they just had to move on to the new systems. The TPS1200 can still work with the Viva controllers with a newer radio handle.

Thanks Mark I was just curious.

Zoidberg and Lee,

I will agree 100% about the CS controllers issues with screen and etc. We have been through some issues with it and I am sure the next unit will be better. I will also say that there are many data collectors out there with color screens that suffer the same poor visual once a screen protector is placed on it. No excuses... you still struggle to see the CS screen in bright sunlight period. Buttons should have been larger.

The one thing I keep reading in posts are short statements like both of you mentioned about SmartWorx.... most posts are ... "SmartWorx is not good". No details or reasons why... just that SmartWorx is not good.

Maybe I should start another thread and ask the general statement as to why? I know I am baised because that is what I train people on and use myself.

Could you list a few reasons why you think k SmartWorx is lacking?

That makes sense regarding the CF cards; I just hadn't seen a CF port on anything new in a while. I actually thought that going robotic just by changing the cap was a great design - obviously if a company had 10 CS15 and one MS50 they could just keep the cap with the gun and never have to worry about what collector they had.

Overall I thought the entire system was fantastic, the gun itself is incredible. I do think that a bigger and brighter screen would greatly enhance the ability to work with the camera and with photos.

Lee,

I agree 100% with the bigger screen. Especially with imaging as you pointed out. I am not sure why the small screen just keeps on being used. Even if it was an inch larger in both dimensions it would be more real estate to see and work with for the user. Maybe it was just costs in design changes. I am not sure.

Mark -

I don't think Smartworx is lacking - although obviously I haven't taken a deep dive into it yet. It's hard to come up with specifics based on the small amount of time I spent with it, but my overall impression of it was that it's unnecessarily complex. You know my background - I loved the software on the System 500 but you really had to know it. Leica tried to make it simple by putting the Go To Work icon in there but once you get into the screens it's still got that feel. Obviously a lot of it is lack of familiarity on my part, but a lot of field guys are not particularly computer savvy and would be overwhelmed by Smartworx (not that I'd hand an MS50 to just any crew).

Based on all of the comments I've heard over the years people like programs like Carlson and Survey Pro because they're simple. Personally, I prefer something that is powerful and that is written on a geodetic basis rather than a plane basis, like Smartworx or Access.

I've heard that Smartworx can be customized; one of these days I'd like to really dig deep into it. But unless / until we're in the market for something I probably can't justify the time right now.

Who knows; to be fair the screen on the TSC3 isn't really any better. But Access doesn't have as much small print lol.

Lee,

Understood. I need just to start a separate thread on that topic. I will need to be prepared for some brutal truth I am sure.

Lee,

I hear you. I have to have reading glasses now when I am working at my desk. Now I need them when using the collector.

Same experience as Lee;

SmartWorx is so convuluted. Too many hidden menus that aren't available until you press the Fn key which you wouldn't know about unless you were familiar with the system. Granted, it is very powerful software! I run TopSurv at home which is VERY simple but it just isn't going to do what SmartWorx does. The menu system is complicated, there are common settings located in multiple places. I have yet to see a need for having separate working and control jobs. We've had issues with prism types returning to default during a job. We commonly have communication problems between all equipment where we need to shut down and reconnect (probably not a SmartWorx problem).

But, all that being said; I LOVE these Leica products! And they are very willing to work with you and they understand their shortcomings. I think it's fantastic hardware!

They have been experimenting with color combinations and contrast issues to make the screens better. They've also ditched the back lit keyboards which were very prone to damage. The new keys are flatter as well. They are trying and I think they are doing well. I can't say that I'd want anything else. Every manufacturer has their problems, but you don't know it until you use their equipment day in and day out.

Zoidberg,

Agreed... good feedback. The issue with the control job and working job has been discussed at a meeting with the developers. I think the consensus was 95% of the people there wanted to do away with the control file. Maybe just even make it an option to use one or not in a global setting so users can have it both ways. I use the control job sometimes and it does have some good uses but... I voted to just take it away to avoid some of the issues and confusion it offers due to user feedback. I am not sure about the prism definition being changed except that this is probably set in the Measure and Targeting Settings in your Working Style. So anytime you go into setup or into survey applications the system looks at these settings and changes them according to the values set. So if you have manually overridden the settings during your work and then gone back into the say the Survey application the system will look at these settings and change the prism definition accordingly.

As a Trimble guy switching over to Leica I hated SmartWorx at first. After spending some time with the software and learning it I started to really like it. I think Access is easier to learn but SmartWorx has a lot more options for people who take the time to learn it.

For what it's worth I agree 100% on the Control Job. There should be a way to link an external file, but it should be optional and non intrusive.