I am interested in getting a robotic instrument for construction layout. I will mostly be doing my own pile, pile cap, foundation and anchor bolt layout. Right now all my layout is done with a Topcon DT-200L Laser Theodolites and tape measure. I have a big job coming up that will need to layout over a 1,000 points. So I have been looking at the Topcon LN-100 and the Leica Icon Robot 50. Price wise it is $21,000 vs. $34,000 to get me everything I need. I know the Leica can do more but is it worth it form me?
> I am interested in getting a robotic instrument for construction layout. I will mostly be doing my own pile, pile cap, foundation and anchor bolt layout. Right now all my layout is done with a Topcon DT-200L Laser Theodolites and tape measure. I have a big job coming up that will need to layout over a 1,000 points. So I have been looking at the Topcon LN-100 and the Leica Icon Robot 50. Price wise it is $21,000 vs. $34,000 to get me everything I need. I know the Leica can do more but is it worth it form me?
1,000 points is a lot of liability. If you bid it right and have sufficient insurance, I suggest you don't skimp especially if you're working solo. Why aren't you considering Trimble?
Ralph
I am a contractor not a surveyor. I usually work of a surveyor's CL hubs. For this job I have the excavation, piles and foundation concrete. It would require me having the surveyor come out multiple times. There are 800+ piles, 130 pile caps, 158 sets of anchor bolts plus foundations. I will still have a surveyor give me control on site and the GC will provide building corners and CL. I am looking for something to help me with the fasted and easiest construction layout only. I also have CAD structural drawings and will have a surveyor setup my jobsite file for my date collector.
I know you are looking for a cheaper way to get the job done and the surveyor will cost significantly. However, how much is it going to cost if you make a mistake and get one of the anchor bolts or pile in the wrong place? Being able to rely on a professional who has experience and errors and omissions insurance is a much better decision even if it does cost a little more. Just my 2 cents worth.
Matt
Guys, if the job is set up by a surveyor and proper procedures and training are provided, a full time surveyor is not required for the project. The contractor has the right idea, get the right instrument and a good instrument person.
Remember that 15 year old Russian figure skater that mesmerized everyone at the recent Olympics? When her mom got interviewed, she said "it's all about the training, you can train a bear to do that"
Back to original question, I would go with the Leica. The topcon has a limited range and is fairly new on the market.
I understand your point. But I will have a surveyor give me control and other points. Normally that is all I get on any job then the rest of the layout is up to me. I have yet to build a foundation where it doesn't go. I am just trying to speed up my layout. That's what pile shop drawings and actor bolt shop drawings for to check your dimensions.
I understand that you can probably do the job. But, is it worth the liability to the company? If a surveyor makes a mistake his insurance company paints for your company to fix the error. If you make a mistake your company has to pony up to fix it. I have been employed by a couple of construction companies. There were some jobs that even as a licensee they did not want me to do because of liability. They want to be able to pass blame along to someone else, even if they may have qualified employees.
Back to your question. I am not sure. I have not worked with either instrument.
Matt
Funny how a guy comes here with a question about equipment and mostly gets advice on how he shouldn't be doing what he wants to do. Well-intentioned advice, no doubt, but probably not very helpful from his perspective.
:good: :good: :good: :good:
The LN-100 is a very easy to operate layout navigator, not actually a survey instrument. It self levels, is intended to be used in short range (less than 100m), and very light and durable. I have been providing training for the LN-100 (and all Topcon robots) recently. The LN-100 is suited for construction. It is NOT an instrument, as there are no optics for a person to see through. All measured points must be occupied with a prism. For most jobs this works fine. You will not be able to site line with the LN-100.
My advice is you ask both vendors for a demo, then rent one of them. I work with Admar Supply of New York. They will apply 3 months rental towards the purchase.
Surveyors, this is another shift in our profession. Contractors and masons have been using string lines & theodolites from our offset points to layout anchor bolts, footers, walls, and pile caps for years. They are just adapting the technology. The surveyors are still needed to to provide the control, offset points, and verification surveys (as-builts). But the new role of the surveyor is to provide the verified line files and point files in digital format to the contractor for use with their data controller, after the initial layout and checks by the surveyor. Much like GPS and machine control. The surveyor sets up the job control, and builds the 3d model for the contractor.
If you have questions feel free to contract me.
www.LeeGreen.com
> My advice is you ask both vendors for a demo, then rent one of them. I work with Admar Supply of New York. They will apply 3 months rental towards the purchase.
>
>Surveyors, this is another shift in our profession. Contractors and masons have been using string lines & theodolites from our offset points to layout anchor bolts, footers, walls, and pile caps for years. They are just adapting the technology.
:good: :good:
I did a bit of googling, that LN-100 does have appealing qualities.
A few questions:
How does the unit search / re-acquire the prism lock, is there a joystick or whistle?
Is a resection with more than two points feasible?
When using the station / back sight orientation method, I assume that getting the instrument exactly over the point is a combination of auto-level, align with laser plummet, re-auto-level, etc.?
The pamphlet mentioned using Android with free app, how good is the program?
Very interesting new technology.
> How does the unit search / re-acquire the prism lock, is there a joystick or whistle?
LN-100 uses Magnet field or Magnet Layout on Tesla or Panasonic ToughPad FZ-M1. You use joy stick on controller, and guide lights on the LN-100. For me personally, I miss the fast acquisitions of the RC-5. But this only works out to 100m, so this method does work OK.
> Is a resection with more than two points feasible?
Yes, you can do multi-point resections, also a prefered method for concrete works is the "Reference line" routine in Magnet Field/Layout. It allows user to select two points on a line the shift along that line, and NOT introduce any scale factor.
> When using the station / back sight orientation method, I assume that getting the instrument exactly over the point is a combination of auto-level, align with laser plummet, re-auto-level, etc.?
Yes, that's it exactly. It does a few minutes for the LN-100 to turn on, collimate and auto-level. There is NO optical plumb, just laser. This makes a bit difficult for the layman setting over a point. The legs and tripod head need to be very close to being over point. For this reason most non surveyors prefer the "Reference Line" and Resection methods.
> The pamphlet mentioned using Android with free app, how good is the program?
The free Google app is crap. Not enough routines to be useful. Running Magnet on a PC is very fast. The LN-100 uses Wi-Fi connection. The Panasonic ToughPad FZ-M1 is a 7" tablet with Windows 7 or 8.1, 4Gb RAM, 1.6MHz, and 128 SSD, with Magnet Field v2.6 is my prefered setup.
>
> Very interesting new technology.
Thank you for those detailed answers, I would say there's definitively a market for this new instrument.
