Leica gs15

Hey Stpats,
Some Leica fans will likely have a problem with my response here but I believe the more knowledge I have the better decisions I can make. I too have a few Leica products and I enjoy my 1205 very much. I however have not enjoyed my Leica GS09 in any way or the Leica controller that came with it. It has had problems from the beginning and Leica has been unwilling to correct these problems. I do not have direct information about the GS15 but the controller that goes with it has some very similar problems that the CS09 has. Basically if you go with all Leica than it will work, in my case that didn’t even work, if you have a none-Leica factor in any part of your process than it’s at your own risk,- no matter what Leica says or prints. As far as performance, I have been able to compare my GS09 to a few alternatives just this year and both Atlas and Topcon outperformed Leica for what I needed. Those are my experiences. After my experiences with Leica I am running a different direction with my next GPS purchase. Good luck.

Stpats,

I can help with questions about the GS15 or the Viva system in general. You mentioned that you already have a Viva controller with the TPS1200 robot. The software is basically the same on a total station side and the GNSS side. With GNSS you will of course need to have a defined coordinate system or confrom to local survey control and create your own local projection for a project. You would be familiar with both of these since you have used the GPS900. The coordinates systems, codelist, format files, and a few other items are the same for GPS1200, GPS900 and now Viva. So that should help with some of the logisitcs.

I think that what you may have been asking about is line work in Viva. The viva controller can export a DXF file with just points. You can also do line work onbaord with both systems and have a DXF with line work. It will just take a few trails and errors and the decsion to use or not to use a codelists.

Just post you specific questions and am sure myself or other posters can give you an answer.

Thanks for the replies gents.

Bear Bait
Only have had one run in with a top con.
Have to say that I did not find it user friendly
At all compared to the 407 or even the 800 series.

Other than problems with cross usage with other
Manufacturers what kind of problems did the
GS09 cause you.

Surveythemark
Getting into the line work now and the new N4CE
software that the Managing Director bought last year,
when I wanted to add another robotic will get used some
More now that there are new sites starting.

As I said, I am still learning the software when I get the time.
Can't wait for the day that I can finally produce a fully
Contoured map.

Would really like to dispose of the RX900 but have
Been told that I should keep it and use it as a base
Station. ( connect it permanently on top of site office )
Then use the GS15 as a Rover on local grid.
Then only rent the licence when required on Maine
Land UK.

OR

BUY the Irish grid Lience ( £1600 per year ball park )
Rent the OSGB when required.

Feel that I will be putting good money after bad
The next time that the RX900 breaks down.
Lucky to be worth £1600 trade in.
Not much left out of £1000 every time that its
Sent to get fixed.
Twice in the 2 years.

Is it worth the risk without a base station
If the network is down ?

With the time difference need to turn in.
Will be back tomorrow.

Thanks once again for taking the time to read
And reply.

Stpats.

> Does anyone have experience of the GS15.
> Would this be a good cost effective option.
GS15 is an excellent receiver. The GS14 is very nearly as good and a good deal less expensive. Also lighter, more compact. Be sure to check the GS14 out before making your decision

>
> Would really like to dispose of the RX900 but have
> Been told that I should keep it and use it as a base
> Station. ( connect it permanently on top of site office )
> Then use the GS15 as a Rover on local grid.
> Then only rent the licence when required on Maine
> Land UK.
>
> OR
>
> BUY the Irish grid Lience ( £1600 per year ball park )
> Rent the OSGB when required.

Setting up a base station on the office won;t work that well once you travel away to site. The further you get the worse the accuracy will be. If it is unreliable then it sounds like a bad idea to travel away from it and rely on it to work when you get there.
Trimble VRSnow offer an all-europe correction service for £2750 per year unlimited. You can use it on Trimble, Leica, Topcon instruments. (as with all the correction services as far as I'm aware)
Let me know if you want a trimble R8 & TSC2 - I might sell it as it's not getting used. I'm in Manchester UK. Works well with n4ce as well.

All the best
Roger

This is not comprehensive and really doesn’t reveal just how ridiculous the experience has been.
From new out of the box it wouldn’t lock, after I sent it back it came back and wouldn’t work with Leica SurvCE operating software, (it hadn’t even been bata tested) it would lock with Smartworx. Leica wouldn’t send Carlson a unit so I had to send mine to Kentucky directly to Carlson so they could write software so it would work at all. I had paid an extra $600 for the required Leica SurvCE as opposed to Carlson but Leica wouldn’t stand behind it. After it came back – (this all takes months) it started to lose lock during static sessions, - would lock for a couple minutes and then lose lock – couldn’t get any static. I sent it back to Leica and they replaced parts inside. They refused to tell me the parts or cost because it of their policy. After it came back it did rtk and static although it won’t do static in SurvCE like advertised. I then wanted to add a new depth sounder to my equipment list, so I talked with two people at Leica, one person at Carlson and the people at Odem Teledyne about communication. Leica and Carlson were sure there would be no problem with the system I was proposing. I purchased the sounder and low and behold they wouldn’t t talk to each other. After thousands of dollars in tech work, bluetooth dongles, usb – serial converters, cables and untold frustration we finally figured out the Leica controller is to blame and will not ever talk to a peripheral so I am crap out of luck. Since then I have sent it back one other time because of static lock issues and just the other day I had another wasted day due to loss of lock during static. At this point I question whether it is worth sending in for repairs.
Besides the obvious defects the equipment is very unreliable. Sometimes it sets up and gets going in minutes and other times it takes over an hour screwing around with it just to get the base up and going. The equipment has been crap from the start and Leica has even admitted it was their fault. Leica has never offered to take the equipment back or make it right. I have no experience with the new line they are marketing but it would be hard for me to consider buying something from a company that didn't test their product before sale, didn't stand behind their product or their word after the sale. If we had an agency that inspected GPS equipment this junk would likely have a recall.

Are you going through a dealer or directly through Leica? The reason I ask is that I sell Leica pretty much only with Carlson. I am a fan of their software and I like that I can get through to their programmers easily as a dealer to get me through my most difficult problems. That being said, from what I am understanding in your post is that you have had someone at Leica tell you that Carlson works (no problems) with the Leica equipment? Because I'll be honest....I have never heard this out of the mouths at anyone at Leica. In fact, as a dealer the official recommendation would be use Viva Smartworx as they know there are no issues and can support both the hardware and software under one umbrella.

I have yet to find a manufacturer that will support other peoples stuff, be it software or hardware (with the exception of Carlson who does the best they can with what they are given). Call Topcon and ask them why it doesn't search well with Survey Pro. Call Trimble and ask why they get an autonomous reading for the first 30 seconds after hooking up VRS with a 5700.

Again, I ain't drinking anyone's Kool-aid. If Leica works for your job application-great, use it. If Trimble works-great use them. I can really care less. Like you though I am a huge fan of the Leica Robot, nothing like it. It's weird that you seem to have had this problem with Leica though, its exactly opposite of what I have been witness to with multiple customers.

> This is not comprehensive and really doesn’t reveal just how ridiculous the experience has been.
When did all this happen? Were you the earliest of early adopters?

The GS15s I used were used with VIVA, not Carlson, and they were certainly very reliable. There were some issues with the Pac Crest radios.

Cwlawly
Without question 90% of the problems have been Leica either hardware or software.
The problems associated with Carlson are because the hardware will not communicate the way it was advertised. The thing every Leica dealer, such as yourself, conveniently omits is the fact that the Carlson software I purchased came in a Leica box and was labeled Leica SurvCE. I will look at the box but I don’t think you could find the name Carlson on the box. I was required to purchase this software at a premium price as opposed to Carlson because it was “proven” to work with Leica. Leica had not even bata tested the software they were selling with this equipment.

Norman
When did all this happen? Were you the earliest of early adopters?
Yes, I do believe I was an early test subject. I have asked Leica several times to put me in contact with other owners of the same system and they won’t do it. I think it’s because they don’t want all of to talk.

I really am sorry that you've had issues with your GPS. I hate that the issues you had cause you to "hate" the brand.

I do want to clear up one thing. There is no required "Leica SurvCE". Leica is a reseller for that SurvCE software and on the label it says Leica Geosystems as they are the licensee. That being said, there is no difference between the SurvCE you can purchase from Leica and the SurvCE you can purchase from Carlson. None. If someone has told you different, they lied to you. I only purchase the survCE I sell from Carlson, never Leica. It's also only sold at the Carlson prices.

All that being said, I am aware of your connection issues. I ran into them as well. We've done a lot of testing and the problems have been fixed with an extra procedure. I hate that the problem existed too. Doesn't make me hate the brand though. The unit itself functions wonderfully.

I do want to clear up one thing. There is no required "Leica SurvCE". Leica is a reseller for that SurvCE software and on the label it says Leica Geosystems as they are the licensee. That being said, there is no difference between the SurvCE you can purchase from Leica and the SurvCE you can purchase from Carlson. None. If someone has told you different, they lied to you. I only purchase the survCE I sell from Carlson, never Leica. It's also only sold at the Carlson prices.

1st). I have to clear this up – Since I purchased this equipment Leica has changed this because of this and other issues with Carlson. So please don’t tell me something that you have no knowledge of like it is the truth. - The box clearly states Leica SurvCE and yes I was required by my Leica dealer to purchase this software at a higher price than the Carlson SurvCE in order to run it on a Leica controller. I had no option about this. End of Story anyone who is telling you different is lying. I had other licenses of Carlson and I wasn’t able to utilize them with Leica because of this requirement.

All that being said, I am aware of your connection issues. I ran into them as well. We've done a lot of testing and the problems have been fixed with an extra procedure. I hate that the problem existed too. Doesn't make me hate the brand though. The unit itself functions wonderfully.

2cnd) If you are aware of my issues and they have been corrected in any way than please provide information on how I obtain that information. To my knowledge my communication issues have not been fixed in any way and know one has ever provided me with any way around these problems or a fix through extra procedures. As I stated, I have spent thousands trying to get this to work and I am still using this equipment and it is no more fixed than the day I purchased it. The unit functions terrible, do you even have one of these units?

Cwlawly, form your posts I have gained respect for you on how you approach different issues, in this case you are wrong in what you say and it sounds like the typical Leica rhetoric that I have been subjected to since I tried to get Leica to stand up to their product. It’s simple in my mind, if I was at fault with a product of mine (a point which Leica has clearly admitted) I would work at the issue to make it right for my client. Leica has not done that for whatever reason and during this process I have discovered other troubling things about the way Leica does business. For these reasons I will not purchase GPS equipment as I do not trust Leica. Now I do not hate the brand as you say, I have used Leica products extensively for my 30 plus year surveying career and think the robotic technology is wonderful. Really, all Leica would have to have done was make it right in some way. Seriously

I have been trying to keep my animinity when I emailed you directly but you have never responded at all to me. I work for Leica Geosystems and I have told you this in the email I sent to you. I also asked you to reply to my email so that I can get this resolved. I went on and stated that I am not a sales person, I am not a service person or whatever type of Leica representative that you have dealt with in the past. I am the guy who is going to get this resolved and fixed to your satisfaction. But it has been a few months since I emailed you and I have not gotten a single reply from you. Now I would not be so blatent in this reply to you if you would have responded in some way but you haven't and yet you are repeatedly stating in that no one is willing to "make it right". So, as I stated in the email that I sent to you directly, if you can just give me your contact information so I can get ahold of you outside of this forum then we can "make this right". I continue to look forward to helping you out.

mte4lgs,

I am sorry that I missed your email. The account was a very old one and not in use any longer. It took me awhile to get in but I sent you an email with my contact information.
In trying to update my account here I lost Bear Bait somehow thats why this is BB.
I look forward to talking with you.

>
> Setting up a base station on the office won;t work that well once you travel away to site. The further you get the worse the accuracy will be. If it is unreliable then it sounds like a bad idea to travel away from it and rely on it to work when you get there.
> Trimble VRSnow offer an all-europe correction service for £2750 per year unlimited. You can use it on Trimble, Leica, Topcon instruments. (as with all the correction services as far as I'm aware)
> Let me know if you want a trimble R8 & TSC2 - I might sell it as it's not getting used. I'm in Manchester UK. Works well with n4ce as well.
>
> All the best
> Roger

Hi Roger
Thanks for the reply. I've been away working in areas with poor 3G on my phone and
The places that the company have been booking to stay in have had no wifi

The notion of setting up the base is that it would stay in that position for use in only one
Site and not be moved around at all. The site is pretty large and the Base and Rover set up
Would be used for marking out founds, roads and drainage. All the more accurate setting out
would be by total station.

On another note. Had the pleasure of hiring the GS15 for a week and it was a joy to work with.

Have to go to the boss soon with proposals. Head is in a spin with the need for another Robotic
And hire the GPS when needed or buying the GPS outright.
The added cost of the yearly licence could swing it.
The fact that it will be mostly setting out with occasional surveying the new sites.

Stpats

Yes the hire of GPS gear is expensive but if you only have a few new sites each year just rent it for the first week on each site.
You may need to research about the scale factor of the Irish grid projection. There is info on the UK grid here -

You will find that the distances measured on the total station will not match the GPS co-ords unless you put the appropriate scale factor into the total station job settings. In Manchester it's 40mm in 100m - 0.99960.

Thank you Squowse
Most of the sites that we are involved in at the moment are small. So does
Not effect me that much.
With the increase in surveys now, all related to OSGB Will have to
Start to take this into account more often.
Compared to the old days when orientated to North was the norm.

Could you recommend some studying materials that could help me.
Did civils along time ago and spent 4 years surveying. 2 as a chain man
Before being released to the wild by myself.
Was a small outfit (just the 2 of us).
Never got the full education. Of the GPS or CADING up surveys.
Learning N4ce now. Booking a training course for it today.

I've got a document from OS that explains a lot about geoids and projections.
Email me and I will send it you. (email in my profile)