I was confronted by an angry landowner about trespassing on his property without his permission. He owns a mobile home that is partially set on a neighbor's tract. He may have an adverse claim since there is an old fallen fence, but he does not have actual title to that portion.
Was I trespassing?
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I can just imagine this:
You charged with trespassing.
Goes to court. Judge wants a copy of your survey, and to see where you were... To decide if you are guilty...
Tut tut...
My experience is if you file Trespass charged, you are the Plantiff. You have the burden of proving the Survey Trespass occurred. Very expensive, almost impossible to prove monetary damages. Most people won't pursue prosecuting Surveyor Trespass because there's no monetary benefit. I've been harassed by Deputy Sheriff's because someone claimed I was trespassing, but I've never been booked or prosecuted and I've been surveying for 40 years.
I would be very interested to know how many Surveyors ever actually have been prosecuted for Trespass in their careers. Other than Texas Surveyors, I'd guess pretty dang few.
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Idaho Surveyors only have right of entry for federal and transportation projects. Come July the PLS will be immune from certain trespass charges, but the crew will not. Trespass will also be redefined to include the appearance of trespass. The new law is the most horrific example of stupidity I've seen in a long time...
I would be very interested to know how many Surveyors ever actually have been prosecuted for Trespass in their careers. Other than Texas Surveyors, I'd guess pretty dang few.
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I don't know of any criminal prosecutions, but the Mass. Board of Reg. disciplined a surveyor a few years ago for failing to provide "reasonable notice" prior to entering an abutting property, as required by our statute allowing surveyors to enter private lands. The field crew announcing to the disgruntled landowner that they have a right to trespass does not qualify as "reasonable notice".
(1) For the purposes of this section, the term "surveyor" means a licensed professional surveyor as defined in Section 73-13-71, and any person who is employed by or under the direct supervision of a professional surveyor licensed under Sections 73-13-71 through 73-13-97.
(2) A surveyor may enter in or upon public or private lands or waters, except buildings, while in the lawful performance of surveying duties without criminal liability for trespass; however, a surveyor shall make a good faith attempt to announce and identify himself and his intentions before entering upon private property and must present documentation sufficient to identify him as a surveyor to anyone requesting such identification.
(3) The provisions of this section do not relieve a surveyor from any civil liability that otherwise is actionable at law or in equity, and do not relieve a surveyor from criminal liability for trespass if the entry in or upon the property extends beyond the property or area that is necessary to actually perform the surveying duties.
(4) Surveyors shall be personally liable for any damage caused to private property when exercising entry under this section. No cause of action shall lie against a landowner for damages to a surveyor while on such lands unless the damage is caused by the intentional tortious conduct of landowner or his agent.
I've had this happen more than once.?ÿ Police were called a couple of times but I'm lucky, Illinois had right of entry.
..... He owns a mobile home that is partially set on a neighbor's tract. ......
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No wonder he acted hostilely.
I have been in a couple similar situations and if I could not reason with the person I left. And I did not spend long trying to reason either.?ÿ
I have no interest in getting shot. And I have no interest in getting arrested and thrown in jail and butt raped either.
Sounds like your client requires the services of a lawyer and then a surveyor with a court order to survey the property.?ÿ
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I have no interest in getting shot. And I have no interest in getting arrested and thrown in jail and butt raped either.?ÿ
You??re not as cute as you think you are.?ÿ?ÿ ??ÿ
When the statute has run (and all the requirements have been met) the title of the record owner is extinguished, they have have no title anymore, no court ruling is required, it happens by operation of law at the moment the statute has run. Since the record owner has no title then the person in possession is the only person with a claim to the property therefore a new title springs forth in him. There is no unwritten conveyance, a misconception often seen in surveyor writings.
It hinges on the record owner having a cause of action. In the case of a leasehold the landlord is not in possession therefore he has no cause of action against the possessor so the statute does not run. Likewise in the case of a loan security document such as a Deed of Trust the legal title is in the trustee but not the right of possession. Once the payments are stopped the lender has a cause of action so they have the statutory period to initiate their foreclosure proceeding.
Idaho Surveyors only have right of entry for federal and transportation projects. Come July the PLS will be immune from certain trespass charges, but the crew will not. Trespass will also be redefined to include the appearance of trespass. The new law is the most horrific example of stupidity I've seen in a long time...
And then there is the Oregon law that has burdened and caused more issues for surveyors than it has solved by a long shot! (my opinion only of course, but honestly best thing that could happen is our law go away!)
SHG
I have no interest in getting shot. And I have no interest in getting arrested and thrown in jail and butt raped either.?ÿ
You??re not as cute as you think you are.?ÿ?ÿ ??ÿ
That is very true nevertheless I don't want to risk a jail cell romance.?ÿ
I have no interest in getting shot. And I have no interest in getting arrested and thrown in jail and butt raped either.?ÿ
You??re not as cute as you think you are.?ÿ?ÿ ??ÿ
That's got nothing to do with it..........?ÿ
Idaho Surveyors only have right of entry for federal and transportation projects. Come July the PLS will be immune from certain trespass charges, but the crew will not. Trespass will also be redefined to include the appearance of trespass. The new law is the most horrific example of stupidity I've seen in a long time...
And then there is the Oregon law that has burdened and caused more issues for surveyors than it has solved by a long shot! (my opinion only of course, but honestly best thing that could happen is our law go away!)
SHG
Pertaining to 672.047, https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors672.html, is this because it was common law right of entry before the law and now it is specifically proscribed with certain very specific obligations??ÿ I can see a benefit to legislating rights (and obligations), however, I also see how legislation may not foresee all possible scenarios.?ÿ Then you can be restricted by the letter of the law rather than a common law concept of "I can walk here" which may allow for more flexible and reasonable approaches for some scenarios.?ÿ
Best regards, Eli
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