Hello. My husband and I had our land surveyed a few years ago so we could install a privacy fence in the correct spot. When the surveyers came out, after 6 hours he said that he has never had such a hard time finding the lines. I told him that we had received a paper at closing with a sketch showing that the line came out 7 1/2 feet from the bay window on the side of our house. He told me unless I could show him said paper, he couldn't go off that. I couldn't find it at the time as we had misplaced it and the fence was already purchased and sitting outback by our shed. He had to use what the county had on file from sometime in the 1800s. Yes. Our house was built in 1900 and no new surveys were done in our town since the 1800s. He told me the whole town was off. He finally used an old fence post to the left of our property to go off of which used to be a part of our property (used to hold the horses) before that land was sold off. Now, we have markers on one side of our house that are just inches from the bay window rather than the 7 1/2 feet that is started on the original drawing that we received from the title company at closing. We have found that paper now and don't know what steps we can take to correct it. The guy who placed the markers told me that they are 3' deep and can never be removed. We just got new neighbors (renters who are considering purchasing their house) who have seen the markers and we have told them that those markers are off by about 7 feet, yet they continue to mow our grass and ignore us. I am worried they are going to cut down our holly tree next which is 2 feet over the marker, but according to our paper, well within our yard. We paid $600 for this survey. The fence was never installed due to the confusion. It Just sat and has been eaten by termites...totally destroyed. Do I call the company and have them come out and move their markers or do I need to hire a new company? Will they move their markers? Can I hire a new company or will there be legal issues with the markers being moved by another company? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Firstly, survey laws and requirements for finalization of a survey vary state by state. If you let us know the state you are in, that would go a long way in determining the solution for you.
Did the surveyor provide you with a map showing your parcel upon completion of the job?
I have performed work in an area like the situation you are in, and all the property lines (per the deed) were off about 8 feet. Luckily, this was common knowledge, so the neighbor on each side were willing to agree to quit claim the lands up to the existing fence lines. Subsequently, the entire block was surveyed and corrected.
The problem is that, as surveyors, we are required to locate and recreate the deeded descriptions of land, which in some cases do not match the lines of occupation. In Washington state, the law requires us to file a record of survey if the lines of occupation do not match the deed description. State law also gives us some useful tools in resolving your particular problem, but again, this may vary depending on the state you are in.
Your surveyor should be able to offer solutions. I would contact him/her and ask what the steps are to change/correct the boundary lines to what you believe them to be. You will likely need to involve your neighbors, so now would be a good time to become very friendly with them.
I would try to resolve your issues with your current surveyor, before seeking another one.
If The Title Company Had The Original Survey...
...it should have been provided prior to the new survey as a part of the title package.
From this point on your survey work will most likely require an attorney. You can mention the $600 as much as you want, but add at least one more zero for now.
Paul in PA
a survey like that should take 6 days, not 6 hours.
The surveyor is trying to reconstruct history from very sketchy evidence.
8 feet? That's nothin'..
How about where the location of the Point of Beginning is 150 feet removed from where its supposed to be? I worked on this one a couple of weeks ago. Its a couple of meets and bounds parcels that are supposed to start at the easternmost corner of Lot 4. Apparently, whoever wrote the descriptions (and subsequently surveyed) back in the 1970s was not aware that the road was realigned in the mid-1920s.
If The Title Company Had The Original Survey...
There may actually be that rare unicorn sighting here. The title company just, and I hesitate to even broach the subject, may have to pay a claim on this one. It's worth a try. Can't hurt to file a claim, I've worked on three of them the last year.
Was the "survey" you originally had really a survey?
Is the document showing your boundaries that you originally received when you purchased your home really a survey? Some states allow for things called "Mortgage Inspections" or "Improvement Location Certifications" when obtaining a mortgage on a home that are not really boundary surveys, but can be mistaken for one. Does it state anywhere on it that it is a boundary survey or have a statement that it is not a boundary survey?
And cost about $6,000!
The surveyor bases his opinion on observable evidence, and provided/researched documents. Discovery of additional documents or additional physical notice relating to the boundary can change that opinion. I would provide your surveyor with the document you found and see if his opinion changes as a result. Also, if the recovered document is an actual survey, you might contact the surveyor who prepared it. If it isn't a survey you don't have anything.
If you do have a survey and you can contact the previous surveyor and both surveyors stand by their opinions, ask yourself who makes the most compelling argument?
You mention that some of the land was sold off. Was the questionable line created when the property was sold off? If so, the questionable line doesn't date back to the 1800's, it dates back to when the land was divided.
I'm with right up to the 'Quit Claim' part. The issue at hand is a description that cannot be located with certainty with the evidence at hand. Any solution that doesn't clearly resolve that simply piles evidence on top of the problem.
An agreement executed by all effected parties and properly recorded puts it to rest.
There is a long list of possibilities to consider. We know only what you have provided, which is not much compared to what we need to know to provide solid help.
Depending on the State of your property, the rules vary considerably. As mentioned above, some allow the quasi-survey sketch known as a Mortgagee Title Inspection or Improvement Location Certifcate. In my backyard, the common boundary survey does not show the location of existing structures, but MTI's and ILC's do. Those quasi-surveys are to be performed by a surveyor but ARE NOT SURVEYS and should never be used for any other purpose than to satisfy your lender. In other States the surveyor must show all improvements on the survey plat.
If the sketch you were provided at closing actually is a true boundary survey then you must not be in what we call a recording State. In recording States boundary surveys are filed in the public records for anyone, especially future surveyors, to find and use as a basis for other surveys. Some States, such as Texas, do not have this requirement. This makes the survey much more difficult for your surveyor as they must do ten times more work to find all of the relevant clues to arrive at where your boundaries should be monumented (iron bars or pipes driven deep into the ground, when possible). Having access through the public records to prior surveys provides the surveyor much guidance on how to locate or establish your boundaries. As an example, just yesterday we surveyed a tract with two record surveys in hand which allowed us to find all but one corner of the tract we were to survey already monumented.
Sometimes surveyors disagree with the work of other surveyors. Both believe they have done the job correctly. Usually this means that one did not have as much information available to them as the other. Sometimes it is a matter of sloppiness by one surveyor. Sometimes it is a misinterpretation of old deeds where the wording is far from definitive. Sometimes it is a minor variance based on precision of measurement during the field work. The difference you describe is not minor.
I would encourage you to contact the surveyor who did the work for you. Show him the sketch. One of two things should happen. He may politely explain that your sketch is not a survey as mentioned above. Or he may recognize that he needs to correct his past work based on information he did not have at the time. In rare instances he will fly off the handle and make disparaging remarks about the worthless SOB who is a disgrace to the entire surveying profession and is the one who drew up the cartoon you think is a valid survey showing your bay window over seven feet from the boundary line on that side of your house.
This is a situation like the parable of the elephant and the blind men describing their perspective by feeling different parts of the elephant's body.
Without knowing your location and other details, one can only provide professional hunches based on your info.
Like the Bowtie Surveyor said, there may ave been a mortgage inspection 'survey" done by the title company. These are legal in some states and not permitted in others.
There may have been a boundary agreement filed that was based on a rough sketch of the improvements in place at the time (house).
One must wonder why the surveyor put the weight of evidence on a post that you claim was for the horses. The surveyor would have needed some type of oral testimony of one the landowners to justify that determination,. An affidavit should have been performed to attest to that post in question.
Advice..if i was in your situation, I would be looking for records at the courthouse . Sometimes the court clerks are very helpful in helping one search of the records. Some may have past knowledge of the area also.
You should have erected your fence where you thought it would be despite the surveyor setting his monuments. It was just his OPINION where the line was located . It would have been a catalyst to clear the situation at the time. At this time avoid acquiescence to the new markers. Go plant more trees, erect posts 7.5' off of your window if you think that is where the boundary is located. You can also call for a meeting of everyone involved and go from there. Hopefully, sane heads will prevail.
> The surveyor bases his opinion on observable evidence, and provided/researched documents. Discovery of additional documents or additional physical notice relating to the boundary can change that opinion. I would provide your surveyor with the document you found and see if his opinion changes as a result. Also, if the recovered document is an actual survey, you might contact the surveyor who prepared it. If it isn't a survey you don't have anything.
It could have been a boundary agreement sketch.
> The fence was never installed due to the confusion. It Just sat and has been eaten by termites...totally destroyed.
If this is this case, then the length of time for this fiasco to have unfolded must have been many, many years. You should have acted on this 10 years ago.
While there is no specific set amount of time it takes a colony of termites to ruin a house, a colony numbering 60,000 termites will eat roughly one foot of 2-by-4 wood every six months. Colony numbers and specific conditions will affect this time estimate.
Read more : http://www.ehow.com/facts_7379510_quickly-can-termites-ruin-house_.html
Some have speculated that an average colony of subterranean termites (one of the most destructive forms of termite in the U.S.) may consume 16 grams of food a day. If you do the math, that's around 12.9 pounds a year. It is important to note, though, that termites do not generally stick to a single food source, so that yearly 12.9 pounds is not likely to come from, say, a single floor joist or support beam.
Read more: http://www.redbeacon.com/hg/dangers-termite-damage/#ixzz3ZetNtHXX
Formosan termites would drastically change the equations that you posted.
