Keeping Clients

I remember reading in Bergeron's book that the average time to get paid for surveying/engineering firm is 65 days. 2 months. 🙁

Once upon a time when I worked for a large company, we landed a new client with a huge project, and I do mean big. Really big. It meant years of work. A few days later I noticed the down payment had not arrived. We kept getting reports it would be here by FedEX, but somehow it didn't arrive. The land owner reported he hadn't received his down payment either. I wanted to pull the plug right then and there but the higher ups were blinded by the huge profits from the really big project. Months later we were in a big financial hole, a deep hole we had dug because we didn't have the guts to pull the plug.

Capiche?

I wouldn't consider an entity that doesn't pay invoices a client, they are more like a leach.

G.C. s

I try not to make a habit out of working for general contractors. They spend only other people's money.

Case-in-point:

October 2013 had a large design-build GC (that I have worked for a number of years ago) call me up and need a rather large topo/ as built of a site I staked almost five years ago. They are contracting a several large building addition to the site. They need a serious topo..quick.

I joked with the crews and told them to get out there and "earn their Christmas Bonus". We had it completed, delivered and billed by Nov. 10.

sit around and wait and wait and wait...

December they need a couple of extra manholes located off-site. I mention my invoice and take care of the additional topo. I sent an updated invoice quickly after that.

Long story short: after several invoices, increasingly nasty I might add, the PM finally gets a hold of me and explains they've 'lost' my invoices....but construction is starting soon and they're gonna need someone to stake it all.

I told him if I'd get paid; I'd think about it. (I lied)

Received the check last Thursday, March 27. He called Friday afternoon and wanted to get me a set a plans so I could get started on the staking. I explained it would be about five months before I could start, since it took that long to get me paid for the topo. I told him I didn't like their pay arrangements so I really wouldn't be considering the work. He needed to call around.

I believe he was truly put-out that I wasn't going to stake the project for him....

the nerve of some folks.:bored:

G.C. s

> Long story short: after several invoices, increasingly nasty I might add, the PM finally gets a hold of me and explains they've 'lost' my invoices....but construction is starting soon and they're gonna need someone to stake it all.

It's amazing how not doing anything on a project until you get a retainer for about 40% of the estimated fee (my standard request) filters out the folks who are going to be slow-to-no pay. I know it's greatly improved the quality of my life to operate on that basis.

G.C. s

I do not lift a finger until I get a 50% retainer and a signed agreement in hand...except in the rarest of cases....

G.C. s

I too require 50% DP but most corporations say they have standard payout of only 30% for DP.
I get 50% for most small privately owned survey work. But you can't live on those 1x homeowner clients.
If I get only small lot owners that need a boundary or topography surveys for building their homes, I would need at least 10 per month.
The big work would cover my expenses for 2 months from 1 month's work.

Stuck between a rock and and very hard place.|-)

G.C. s

> I too require 50% DP but most corporations say they have standard payout of only 30% for DP.

Well, isn't the trend for "corporations" (which in practice really just means some sociopathic wealthy person hiding out behind the fiction of a corporation) to offer less and less and demand more and more? Letting the wealthy clients dictate the terms of one's services has to be a loser, both short and long term.

I did some building stakeout for a self-storage company. The project manager
asked, "Are you the entire crew?" I said yes. I convinced him that I could lay out
more buildings than any of the engineering crews that he had used.

He said, "OK, I will try it for a day." At the end of the day, I had staked 8 buildings.
He said that the survey crews from the engineering company staked two or three
per day. He gave me the address of two more sites with buildings to be staked out.

After packing up my gear, I went to the project manager and said pay me. He was
stunned. I said, "Well, go ahead and use the engineering crews who get out here
once a week. He reached behind and pulled out his company check book.

The developer and the concrete contractor walked up to us smiling. " Everything is
ready to go."

i don't jump though anyone elses hoops to get paid. Fill out the paperwork for a mechanics lien and forward with an invoice. Include the maximum penalty and interest allowed in your state. Then remember that you do zero work before getting your retainer. If this client wants further work, the retainer is 100% up front.

G.C. s

Had a realtor ask for a price on an EC. I gave it to him with the "half up front" deal. He said, "We're all waiting for closing." I said, "We get half up front." He said they don't work like that. I asked for the name and number of the seller. He found a reason to hang up.

I don't care who pays but someone pays. You stop at the order window and order. Stop at the next window to pay. The last window is where you pick up your order.

Last time I checked, you can only file a mechanics lien for material and not labor in this state. 🙁
50% down and only unsigned PDF of drawing until paid in full works for me.

Few problems in nearly 30 years

Getting paid has been a minimal problem through the years. The vast majority of my clients would be considered the "one and done" type mentioned above. Sure, there are realtors and lenders that routinely have their clients use me for their survey needs. Even then, probably more than half come directly from the client rather than at closing. We have over 100 jobs per year of this sort. For a one-crew firm, that is our bread and butter. Getting tied to a single really big client is a pain in the rear that messes up our ability to jump on the routine, small jobs that pay the bills.

One time I tackled a large construction staking project that tied me up about every other day, on average, for six months. It was super tough to not lose my regular clientele while jumping through hoops for the big boy. The biggest thing was they call and expect me to be there the next morning or by the end of the day when there were no plans to be there. This forced many reschedules and a lot of phone calls while trying not to overly upset the other clients. This was prior to the days when everyone from 3 to 93 carries a cell phone, by the way. Also, this was a case of where the general contractor scheduled my work but the money came directly from the developer. It took three months for the first payment to arrive. After that, new money arrived monthly. Living those first three months was only possible because of the multitude of little jobs we fit in around the one giant pain in the gluteus maximus. Notice that I started this paragraph with "One time".

Few problems in nearly 30 years

> The biggest thing was they call and expect me to be there the next morning or by the end of the day when there were no plans to be there. This forced many reschedules and a lot of phone calls while trying not to overly upset the other clients.

I call them a "crisis-ho". They always call at 6:30 AM all jacked up because they've got mud ordered for noon!...yadda yadda (yawn).

I always relate to them the "5 P's" school of thought:

Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance.

I also usually let them know that "bad planning on their end doesn't constitute an emergency on my end". |-)

G.C. s

so true.. Just this morning I had an emergency message, 10 day due diligence, client needs a survey and FEMA (slab on grade house in a V 15 zone!!) When I called back with the fee and need for a credit card number TODAY to get it on my schedule, they asked if they could wait until Friday, as the inspectors were to be done by then. Ummm, NO. Next.

G.C. s

I had a closer at the title company say the owner did not want to pay.
The closer said, "ok, we will put the money in escrow until the owner
releases it. I said, "Fine, I will put a lien on the property." The next
day I received a check from the title company.

Used to do work for a large contractor in South Florida that had a 45 day pay schedule. Around the 40 day mark, they would always mail (not fax or email) something else that had to be signed or call and say they needed something resubmitted or resent. Just to delay payment and start the process over. We continued to work for subs of that contractor, but never directly for them again.

What's up with the Finance Companies ...

... that will pay you based on your outstanding invoices? Is that a reasonable source of money when the clients are slow to pay?

The ads say, "They will collect from the client, and if the client can't pay, you owe them nothing?"

I have wondered if that's really true ...

Recent email exchange

Contractor:
Thanks for your time on the phone today.
Please consider the attached proposal approved. The projector coordinator [redacted] will forward the signed proposal tomorrow AM. We will do our best to send you the CAD files tomorrow still. Please schedule your staff to initiate tasks 1, 2 and 6 immediately early next week.

Contractor:
Please ensure your invoices are uploaded correctly .
Your services are no longer required for [redacted] Middle School.

I keep a short list of general contractors I'll work with, and it keeps getting shorter. 😉