There is no such thing as .01 or .03 out, I don't care what anybody says. If folks get that close, it is perfect. Also, if you can publish that you disagree by .01, you are just plain arrogant, and yes your ____ does stink.
Error bearings to the nearest degree, thought this survey was more accurate and precise than that.
gschrock, post: 424567, member: 556 wrote: Makes me speculate.... if a team of surveyors was brought out every time a first down was measured in football then that might extend the game by several hours and provide more dead time in which to run more and more truck and beer commercials - sponsors would love it!. But then again that might backfire and add weeks or years to each game....
It wouldn't involve a team of surveyors. Just one with a field book for recording and a tape measure using the yard line markings. Or better than that, a gps enabled and microchipped football.
I had to vacate the office after I posted this yesterday. I deliberately left the title block off the plan because the PLS/PE that did tis work was a family friend and my next door neighbor when I was growing up. I used to babysit his kids, actually. He was a nice guy, top rate fellow.
Bob Freeman was right, this was how things were done because of the Land Courts policy that the plan is the monument. That philosophy carried forth into the unregistered land, too. Typically you find two bounds that check well, review the relationship between others and hold the math, show the offsets. It used to be standard practice for years.
The Land Court, in their infinite wisdom would NOT reference a bound out of position unless it was more than 0.15' out of the mathematically location derived from hold two random bounds that checked well between them. Frequently we would have to send in multiple rotations and coordinate lists.
Oh well, RIP Jim, I wasn't aware that you had passed. Thanks for all those flights you gave me as a kid. He had a seaplane that he would put wheels on in the winter and land on the pond in our backyard. He took me flying in the seaplane and the regular Piper Cub.
Carl B. Correll, post: 424634, member: 13 wrote: How big are the bounds? 4" x 4" or so? And they are knocked? Ridiculous. And Lot 49 doesn't close by 0.72' and Lot 50 doesn't close by 0.35'. I'd almost call this a cartoon rather than a plat.
And [USER=44]@Andy J[/USER], I'd say that there's a note on there stating that all unlabeled lot corners are rebar set or pipe set or whatever. That's quite common here. IMHO.
Someone needs their license revoked.
Tommy Young, post: 424704, member: 703 wrote: Someone needs their license revoked.
I have seen worse registered plans and unregistered plans.
I still have a hard time holding the monument within a subdivision over the math. I wait until I have most or all of the original monuments before I monkey with the subdivision.
Had a registered plan. The A or B plan showed a corner and the C plan showed the record surveyor setting a monument there. A later plan held the monument to subdivide the vacant land.
I had it all located and that monument was off by 0.7'. I staked a lot in the A or B plan and the other surveyor was the one who held the bound. It might apply to the later plan, but I had the original monuments for the A and B plans, so I advised them to take it up with the land court to remedy their subdivision.
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When I see things like this it makes me laugh. Back in the early 80's I worked under a PLS that would call a 1' diameter field stone 0.01' off. If I go back the next day and reshoot the same stone am I going to come up with the same results? If another crew located it would their results be the same? People get too crazy with this stuff. I tend to call a monument as being good if I am on top of it even if I am not hitting the exact center of it. No matter how careful anybody is, every measurement has a systematic error.
What drives me crazy is when another surveyor misses an existing pipe, pin or rod by say 0.2' and then sets their own pin right beside the found one. Nothing like creating confusion!
Somebody stated in a thread above to hold the plat and while that may be case law in some states it is not necessarily the best answer. Common law in most colonial states dictates that original corners found control over the plan as they are the best evidence of the intent. Intent being the key word.
We build precise networks for monitoring. Everything is overkill piled on overkill with the mistakes being made the same every time.
I can say with certainty these nitations dont reflect reality. Makes me wonder if the guy knew it but had to satisfy ridiculous local practice...
How do you monument to 0.01'
Scribe line on s brass plate set in concrete?
he must've had a 95% confidence region of 0.01'.
thebionicman, post: 424895, member: 8136 wrote: We build precise networks for monitoring. Everything is overkill piled on overkill with the mistakes being made the same every time.
I can say with certainty these nitations dont reflect reality. Makes me wonder if the guy knew it but had to satisfy ridiculous local practice...
So why annotate anything to nearest 0.01 and 20" per 100'?
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spledeus, post: 424905, member: 3579 wrote: So why annotate anything to nearest 0.01 and 20" per 100'?
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The math on a plat does a few things. It demonstrates boundaries to be common and points us to the manner in which they should be treated. The habit also has the advantage of allowing computations to extend in ways that measurements can't. That's much different than calling a monument incorrect by an amount i cant measure. Good question, hope that answers it...
gschrock, post: 424908, member: 556 wrote: Or it could go like this... I got the OK to post this from the deranged person that wrote this in 2015 😉
Third Down and 2.76Û å±0.045Û 2ìÄ
ÛÏWell Ray, that amazing tackle will bring up a 3rd down and inches situationÛ
ÛSure thing Jay, theyÛªll be bringing out the chain on this oneÛ
ÛÏWhat is going on out there? It looks like a small army of refsÛª about 20 of them, and they are hauling a bunch of equipment on ATVÛªs; what is that Sanjay?Û
ÛÏThere was a press release from the league ÛÒ seems this replaces the chain crew, it is called the ÛÏMeteorology TeamÛÛ? What? Weather forecasters on the field?Û
ÛÏNo, that says ÛÏMetrologyÛ; looks like the league is going to measure the downs with ÛÏlicensed measurement professionalsÛÛÒ must be in response to that football air pressure stuff last season. Say, Kay is down there trying to talk to those ÛÏmeasure-ologists(?)Û or whatever they are.Û
ÛÏJay, Ray, and Sanjay; Kay here with the lead on the measurement teamÛÛ? What is your team doing right now? They seem to be all over the field except where the ball isÛ?Û
ÛÏFirst we have to determine if the field is level, if it is truly rectangular, if the yard lines are parallel and perpendicular to the sidelines. If the measurement is not truly perpendicular to the yard lines, then you would get an error in the length measuredÛ
ÛÏWhy does it have to be that exact? After all, a ref spots the ball ÛÒ it is like a subjective snap decision being treated like a scientific fact ÛÒ arenÛªt you applying precision to the imprecise?Û
ÛÏWow Ray and Jay, Kay sure is full of 50 dollar words today maybe she actually studied in college (unlike us former players)Û? Hang on, he is respondingÛ
ÛÏWe are taking all of the subjectivity out of the process. Photos from high resolution cameras captured every move, and through close-range photogrammetry we can determine the location of initial impact; we plan to add laser scanners by next season as well. WeÛªve replaced the chain with robotic laser total stations and the crew members over there have prism targets on those rods with high precision level bubbles we test before each gameÛ
ÛÏOh, that is what they areÛ says Kay ÛÏI thought they looked like the ÛÏStaff of RaÛ
ÛÏPhoto what? [Ray, or is it Jay?] It has been more than 15 minutes already and the networks are running out of extra beer and truck commercials to run. Oh, it looks like he is reaching for his belt; he might be ready to make the callÛ
[The voice of the party chief booms over the stadium PA system]
ÛÏIf you will turn your attention to the ÛÏStupendatronÛ screen you will see an example of our proven method to determine statistical uncertainty of measurements. As we all know, or should know that values are contaminated by random "noiseÛ; this leads naturally to algorithms that use statistical inference tools to estimate the "true" values of the functions to make optimal decisionsÛ?Û
ÛÏJay, I have no earthly idea what he is going on about. TheyÛªll have to start calling this the ÛÏtwo millimeter warningÛ
ÛÏOr ÛÏtoo minutiae warningÛ [Adds Kay]
[45 minutes later]
ÛÏAs you can see [booms the voice of the ref] we have developed a low distortion projection of the field to take into account the combined effect of EarthÛªs curvature and ground height above the ellipsoidÛ?Û
ÛÏIt is all starting to sounds like LinusÛªs teacher to meÛ? whuh-whuh-whuhÛ? the stands are nearly emptyÛ? Wait! Is that helicopter landing on the field?Û
ÛÏSure isÛ?You can see by the emblem on the side that it is ÛÏFootball OneÛ the chopper of the league CommissionerÛ? I heard he was playing golf out on the Cape and was alerted to this fiasco. Kay, try to get a microphone in there and see what he is saying to that guyÛ
ÛÏAs the commissioner and I hired you people to improve the precision of the measurements; we cannot afford these delays and costs. This is not what we asked for; what gives you the authority to go to extremesÛ
ÛÏWell, it is obvious that you do not know the difference between precision and accuracy and that even considering cost and time shows you are advocating professional incompetence; are you saying this is not a professional league after all?Û
ÛÏGee Ray, it looks like the commissioner is about to explodeÛ? Kay, you better stand backÛ
ÛÏNo, I am not saying that, and as the commissioner and client what I am saying is that you are FIRED! Security - escort these folks out. There are some fans and players outside the gate wanting to talk to youÛ
ÛÏAh, then they must be eager to learn more about professional measurementÛ
{Security guard] ÛÏI would not count on that buddyÛ?Û
As long as you didn't give a fixed fee to measure the first down attempt it should be okay.
When I am putting in my control networks and closing traverses, I count the small numbers and get rid of as much error as possible. I reuse my control more often than the monuments in place.
After locating monuments as accurately as possible, they are checked against called for monuments in various deeds and either accepted or rejected as original. Every time I go back to a survey, I check the monuments closely and see if anything has been disturbed by mowers, dozers and other machinery.
It is totally obscene to expect monuments to stay put many years down the line, especially with ranchers rebuilding fence as close as they can to them. Many I relocate are as much as 2 feet from where they were 5yrs ago. I simply put them back where they belong when I find them moved.
Today I found control nails 0.4ft deep set in 1989 and was looking for a bent over rod I found in 1989. Was there still bent over except a foot deeper in the ground since the waterline crew came thru a few years back and reshaped the profile of the ditch bank. RR Spikes were gone in the road and I put in a few 60d with steel number stamped washer. All the other monuments of different sized rod and rebar were within a tenth except for one and it was 0.37ft farther away from the highway. It has traveled 0.3å±ft to and fro since 1989 every time the Winery put in a new sign where there originally was simply a xtie fence corner. Still, the same record call get repeated as the monument being bearing and distance from two other found concrete r/w monuments. The rod is very loose and probably gets pulled up every time they mow the grass. There is no way to monitor and keep up with that.
0.02
Andy J, post: 424552, member: 44 wrote: And those are the only two monuments in the whole dang thing??
Exactly!
thebionicman, post: 424895, member: 8136 wrote: We build precise networks for monitoring. Everything is overkill piled on overkill with the mistakes being made the same every time.
I can say with certainty these nitations dont reflect reality. Makes me wonder if the guy knew it but had to satisfy ridiculous local practice...
And structural steel! I'm with you on the rest. Jp