Farmer has 100 acres. His house is near the county road with a yard fence around it. The farmer dies and the family (i.e. heirs) decides to part out the house from the farm. They call a surveyor and explain they want to sell the house and the land within the fence. The surveyor locates the yard fence within the boundary of the 100 acres. He carefully measures to each corner post and uses the posts as the bounds for the severed parcel. He prepares a map and a description of the severed parcel calling for each post as located.
On his plat and in his description, should the surveyor call for the posts as found or set?
In Texas, and I assume other States, these are the only two options and each monument must be identified as one or the other, Found or Set.
The answer to this question may seem obvious, but I believe the answer will have other implications.
How bout, existing fence post found and designated as a new corner
There has always been that other debate among surveyors.
Is the fence corner the center of the post or at the point that the wire wraps around the post?
Most of the time, I will set a monument as much as 0.5ft from the post as the actual corner and be it inside if they don't want the fence or outside if they prefer to own and maintain the fence.
0.02
Found.
It was set by the previous "surveyor, " the homeowner 😉
Shawn Billings, post: 365655, member: 6521 wrote: calling for each post as located.
If I were called upon to draw that plat, I'd call out the posts.
"Used BDC of found fence corner, a 6" bois de arc firmly in the ground. "
That is, I'd describe the fence corner.
N
Would he not SET his LS tag ( http://www.surv-kap.com/Nails-Survey-Washers/Brass-Washers-Discs ) somewhere on the FOUND fence post, and identify the center of base of post as the corner point?
Wooden fence posts make such durable monuments, also readily identifiable. Why not just set a proper corner just outside the fence corner and call for 'found existing fence post' and provide a witness distance to the set corner. Turn the fence posts into witness posts. A note on the plat as to what the surveyor did would go a long way. The idea that half the fence post is now on someone else's property just sounds borderline asinine to me, but if that is the intent, make it clear.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 365705, member: 291 wrote: "Used BDC of found fence corner, a 6" bois de arc firmly in the ground. "
What's "BDC"?
foggyidea, post: 365698, member: 155 wrote: Found.
It was set by the previous "surveyor, " the homeowner 😉
Foggy is jumping ahead... Maybe he should go by Froggy 🙂
Seems everyone agrees it's a "found" monument. If the surveyor found it, did it have to be set by someone? If it was set, who set it?
Shawn Billings, post: 365655, member: 6521 wrote: Farmer has 100 acres. His house is near the county road with a yard fence around it. The farmer dies and the family (i.e. heirs) decides to part out the house from the farm. They call a surveyor and explain they want to sell the house and the land within the fence. The surveyor locates the yard fence within the boundary of the 100 acres. He carefully measures to each corner post and uses the posts as the bounds for the severed parcel. He prepares a map and a description of the severed parcel calling for each post as located.
Okay, so this surveyor doesn't have enough sense to locate the boundary so that the yard fence is entirely within the House tract (which is the obvious solution), setting identifiable boundary monuments at the corners located so that when Mr. Developer buys the remainder of the 100 acres, the first thing to go won't be the yard fence which won't be on Mr. Developer's property?
Williwaw, post: 365710, member: 7066 wrote: Wooden fence posts make such durable monuments, also readily identifiable. Why not just set a proper corner just outside the fence corner and call for 'found existing fence post' and provide a witness distance to the set corner. Turn the fence posts into witness posts. A note on the plat as to what the surveyor did would go a long way. The idea that half the fence post is now on someone else's property just sounds borderline asinine to me, but if that is the intent, make it clear.
Winner, winner chicken dinner.
"1/2" Rebar with Cap Set at the base of a wood fence corner post".
Tommy Young, post: 365736, member: 703 wrote: Winner, winner chicken dinner.
"1/2" Rebar with Cap Set at the base of a wood fence corner post".
Except those aren't the parameters of the exercise. I never said what the material of the posts was, nor the condition of the posts, only that the surveyor located the posts and used the posts as the monuments. You and Williwaw both make valid points about setting a precise monument near the intended monument, which was the fence corner post (per the heirs who hired the surveyor). I'm not going to argue whether that's the proper course or not. (There's a thread for that discussion by the way). Mr. Harris made a similar comment. We do the same in many cases - set a rod or a spike at the wire intersection of a fence corner post. But I'm looking for comments to a specific question, when a surveyor uses fence corner posts for the establishment of a new boundary:
Does the surveyor describe the posts as "Found" or "Set"?
Williwaw, post: 365710, member: 7066 wrote: Wooden fence posts make such durable monuments, also readily identifiable. Why not just set a proper corner just outside the fence corner and call for 'found existing fence post' and provide a witness distance to the set corner. Turn the fence posts into witness posts. A note on the plat as to what the surveyor did would go a long way. The idea that half the fence post is now on someone else's property just sounds borderline asinine to me, but if that is the intent, make it clear.
Dang asinine law anyway..
K.S.A. 29-316 provides the following:ÛÏA person building a fence may lay the same upon the line between his own land and the land adjacent, so that the fence may be partly on one side of such line and partly on the other;
Shawn Billings, post: 365739, member: 6521 wrote: Does the surveyor describe the posts as "Found" or "Set"?
Found! You did not make the corner, or install the Post. However "one word" is not exactly clear.
I would use something like this "Found 4x4 redwood fence post, I affix 1" brass tag marked LS5116 at the base, and hereby established as a point on the division line created by this map (or description)".
===
usually I use less words, I have been reading Evan Page too much, sorry
I don't use the term "found" anymore, it implies that 'it was lost' (before I "found it").
I prefer "recovered." I think that is more in line with I/we do (especially when dealing with obliterated corners).
Now when a corner IS LOST, then it can not be "found" again, otherwise it would NOT be "lost" in the first place. In that case, reestablished would make more sense.
Just my 2-bits,
Loyal
Found or set only is way to restrictive. Its like saying everything is either black or white. You didn't find it as a previous set monument. You didn't set the post but the landowner through you adopted it (set it I suppose) as the new corner "monument." I'd just state it how it is-landowner instructed me to use the post as the new corner monument. If some anal reviewer or licensing board gets all bent out of shape over just doing what needs to be done - is it found or set? -MUST be one or the other then your problems go beyond any reasonable nature BUT we all know things can be sort of idiotic at times. If they demand or cookie no matter what then you'll have to give them a cookie!
What if they wanted you to use a tree, river, bluff, etc. Did you set it? Was it a monument before they wanted it to be a boundary (found)?
"Designated as the corner by present owner"
Loyal, post: 365783, member: 228 wrote: I don't use the term "found" anymore, it implies that 'it was lost' (before I "found it").
I prefer "recovered." I think that is more in line with I/we do (especially when dealing with obliterated corners).
Now when a corner IS LOST, then it can not be "found" again, otherwise it would NOT be "lost" in the first place. In that case, reestablished would make more sense.
Just my 2-bits,
Loyal
My BOR asks me to declare either "found" or "set"
Shawn Billings, post: 365719, member: 6521 wrote: What's "BDC"?
I believe Nate is borrowing an initialization from the automotive world: bottom dead center.
Yes, and TDC is top dead center.