There's a company or two here like that- I don't cross paths with their work much, though. Back when I was doing residential titles, you could almost guarantee if you pulled their rod out the schonnstedt would still sing on something within half a foot or so.
And to be clear- that's what this is: a couple residential lots. We're only doing it as a favor to a good client, otherwise it's a PITA in my current workload. All I can figure is they must load up on a pile of them and send a crew down for a couple days. Otherwise it's not worth the gas money.
The website is brutal though- I shudder to think anyone hires them for oil and gas work.
> Well it seems that I am paying the price for the lowballers that came thru here in the downslide.
>
> Last three jobs were re-dos of jobs done by guys no where near here and there is no way they are coming back to tie in a new barn or whatever.
>
> Every single call for an iron rod set is a lie and its just because they did not make any money in the first place, much less come back and set the calced up points.
If there are any firms whatsoever that are advertising quick turnaround and cheap prices over a gigantic service area, that fact by itself would in any rational universe be grounds for a TBPLS investigation of what exactly the heck was standard practice at the firm in question. Smoke and fire are usually not purely coincidental.
I worked Texas in the mid 80s. It did not strike me as a place that traveling for work would pay off. Here in the Northwest it's a different story. Travel is the norm. Once a client gets a smooth flow going they don't want to go through the process of developing another working relationship. It's easier and cheaper to stick with who you know. It works for me...
Are you better off?
If they were so bad, then why would you think they could set an iron rod at the calculated location? Then you'd be obliged to set another or you would be caught in the conundrum of whether to hold the monument set by incompetence.
Are you better off?
> If they were so bad, then why would you think they could set an iron rod at the calculated location? Then you'd be obliged to set another or you would be caught in the conundrum of whether to hold the monument set by incompetence.
I agree that it's usually much better if the quickie-dickie surveyors don't set any markers at all. Probably more than half the time, it just compounds the mess that someone has to deal with later. That still doesn't excuse a practice that in Texas is gross incompetence.
We have a few around here who write there descriptions to a point - never mention if anything was set. Usually all that is there is a "point". It would be easier surveying if they had never done the survey.
Are you better off?
> I agree that it's usually much better if the quickie-dickie surveyors don't set any markers at all. Probably more than half the time, it just compounds the mess that someone has to deal with later.
Sadly true.
I would call them whether you end up reporting them to the board or not. Tell them that you can't seem to find any of their irons, and ask them if they ever set any. Give them the facts, and see how they react. Document that you did it and when. If you report them to the board let the board know what you did. In my opinion reporting someone to the board before you talk with them and ask them what's up is a bad idea.
Not everyone registered in 2007 is bad:-)
But really $650? I don't understand why surveyors seem to be the only profession that undervalues themselves to the point that they can't even make a living on what they are charging. I love surveying but not to the point where I'd do it for free. Took way too long to get where I am at for that.
Are you better off?
:good:
> I would call them whether you end up reporting them to the board or not. Tell them that you can't seem to find any of their irons, and ask them if they ever set any. Give them the facts, and see how they react. Document that you did it and when. If you report them to the board let the board know what you did. In my opinion reporting someone to the board before you talk with them and ask them what's up is a bad idea.
:good: :good: Not consulting them is also illegal in some states.
I straight up called a company one time and I was put on hold. When the nice lady asked why I wanted to speak with so and so, I said so I can ask him directly if he ever set these corners that I can't seem to find. I got put through right away.
He said they set them. Then added reasons why the couldn't be there. I told him that was BS. He asked what he could do to help me. I said email me the coordinate file and the working points, so I can get on your stuff and put them where you were supposed to have put them. He didn't like that I said it like that, but understood that if he played ball, it would die and stink right there and go no further.
I got everything I asked for. Everything. I made my money and moved on and it was done correctly when I got done.
I was so pissed when I called them that it wasn't funny, but I tried to maintain my composure. I've only done that a handful of times.
I know a conscientious surveyor who is also a personal friend. One of his party chief's was not setting monuments. A couple of surveyors and landowners contacted him. He checked out the situation and then fired the guy. Often the surveyor signing the plat has to believe what his guy in the field is telling him. He was glad that people called him because it was giving him a bad name and the party chief didn't care because he was not signing his name to the surveys. I would approach the situation from one of calling the surveyor to have him help you figure out why things are not as they should be. Let him answer the reason without making accusations even though they might be true.
Unregulated Glass
I was just trying to be glass half full...
I could consider it greater harm if a pin cushion were started. An argument between neighbors has more weight when there are multiple pins at corners.
Shawn....Iron rod set - yea right
> Of course it's your place Williwaw. I like the pushback, but I'll do a little gentle pushing back myself. What obligation do I have to protect the public and on what authority do I protect the public. I never swore an oath when I obtained my license. I'm obligated to perform my work to a minimum standard of competence in service to the public. But protection? meh.
Shawn,
You will take an oath to protect the public when you renew your registration next, or you won't get renewed. Also, from T.B.P.L.S.:
TITLE 22 EXAMINING BOARDS
PART 29 TEXAS BOARD OF PROFESSIONAL LAND SURVEYING
CHAPTER 663 STANDARDS OF PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY AND RULES OF CONDUCT
SUBCHAPTER A GENERAL PRACTICE STANDARDS
RULE §663.1 Ethical Standards
Inasmuch as the practice of the land surveying profession is essential to the orderly use of our physical environment, and inasmuch as the technical work resultant thereof has important effects on the welfare, property, economy, and security of the public, the practice shall be conducted with the highest degree of moral and ethical standards. And inasmuch as the state legislature has vested in the Board the authority, power, and duty to establish and enforce standards of conduct and ethics for professional surveyors and licensed state land surveyors to ensure compliance with and enforcement of the Texas Board of Professional Land Surveying, the following standards of professional responsibility and rules of conduct are hereby promulgated and adopted by the Board.
(1) So that every applicant for registration as a professional land surveyor or licensed state land surveyor shall be fully aware of the great obligation and responsibility due the public, the standards of responsibility are promulgated by the Board. In furtherance of this intent, every registrant shall endorse and carry out the standards of responsibility.
OCCUPATIONS CODE
TITLE 6. REGULATION OF ENGINEERING, ARCHITECTURE, LAND SURVEYING, AND RELATED PRACTICES
SUBTITLE C. REGULATION OF LAND SURVEYING AND RELATED PRACTICES
CHAPTER 1071. LAND SURVEYORS
SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS
Sec. 1071.256. EXAMINATION. (a) The board shall prescribe the scope of the written examination and examination procedures with special reference to the applicant's ability in order to protect the public safety, welfare, and property rights.
Shawn....Iron rod set - yea right
Glenn,
I have great respect for you and I hope that my disagreement with you will not undermine that.
I believe you are reading into those ethical standards:
...technical work resultant thereof has important effects on the ...security of the public
I see that my work affects the security of the public. Agreed. It doesn't say I'm responsible for the overall security of the public as it pertains to land surveying. The board is.
The board shall prescribe ...in order to protect the public safety, welfare, and property rights.
I am under obligation to uphold the standards:
every registrant shall endorse and carry out the standards of responsibility
But I'm not a policeman; I'm not given any authority to be a policeman; I maintain that I've never taken any oath to the effect of protecting the public through enforcement as a policeman. My obligation to protection of the public is only through minimal adherence to the standards (which I strive to exceed). I love this profession, and I believe it to be a noble one with a rich history dating back millennia. I believe many practitioners of land surveying to be noble. I also know of many charlatans that do not share my same enthusiasm for the profession, and it burns me up.
Look, if the board were serious about cracking down on fraudulent work, they'd have no bigger advocate than me. Instead, they're cracking down on Firm Numbers on plats and business cards and phone book listings. I feel safer already.
Shawn....Iron rod set - yea right
> Glenn,
> I have great respect for you and I hope that my disagreement with you will not undermine that.
>
> I believe you are reading into those ethical standards:
>
> ...technical work resultant thereof has important effects on the ...security of the public
>
> I see that my work affects the security of the public. Agreed. It doesn't say I'm responsible for the overall security of the public as it pertains to land surveying. The board is.
>
> The board shall prescribe ...in order to protect the public safety, welfare, and property rights.
>
> I am under obligation to uphold the standards:
>
> every registrant shall endorse and carry out the standards of responsibility
>
> But I'm not a policeman; I'm not given any authority to be a policeman; I maintain that I've never taken any oath to the effect of protecting the public through enforcement as a policeman. My obligation to protection of the public is only through minimal adherence to the standards (which I strive to exceed). I love this profession, and I believe it to be a noble one with a rich history dating back millennia. I believe many practitioners of land surveying to be noble. I also know of many charlatans that do not share my same enthusiasm for the profession, and it burns me up.
>
> Look, if the board were serious about cracking down on fraudulent work, they'd have no bigger advocate than me. Instead, they're cracking down on Firm Numbers on plats and business cards and phone book listings. I feel safer already.
Shawn,
No problem with what you're saying. I respect you as well. Actually, I agree with you in some respects. I was only trying to point out that you'll have to agree that "protecting the public" is your responsibility when you renew. While I don't remember the exact wording from the online registration, I certainly don't recall the Board differentiating between you protecting the public as an individual practitioner, and protecting the public in general when you see violations of Board Rules by others.
I certainly agree that the Board should be more serious about cracking down on fraudulent work and insignificant issues. For example, instead of requiring registrants to place their RPLS number or some acronym of their firm on their caps, that unless you know them from local practice, it may be impossible to figure out, they should require RPLS or FIRM NUMBER. If they were truly serious about following the footsteps of the surveyor & protecting the public, there would be a recording statute. That aside, the Rules should at the minimum require a survey/field notes to contain a more accurate description of the monumentation set or found, particularly what is inscribed on it. That would allow anyone reading a deed to know who, or what firm, had surveyed that tract, and allow for better communication between surveyors when problems arise, also known as protecting the public. There's this fascination with trying to keep things hidden so no one will know whose done the survey, whether it's using an acronym that no one recognizes or not writing the description with enough detail to know who surveyed it. I don't understand it. What was the purpose for the requirement of monumentation "being traceable to the registrant" if it really isn't? The property owner will not know who that acronym is, nor will most know what RPLS 1234 means if they happen to dig the corner out and see the inscription. Rant off.
> .....Owner gave me a copy of the Invoice. Now they are wondering why it is costing 5 times that much.....
This is the guy that should be reporting them. The board might look at another surveyor as someone just looking to get rid of competition.
A disgruntled property owner would get their attention.
Shawn....Iron rod set - yea right
that's a good one, Glenn!
We followed a company that does TxDOT work a few months ago. Their survey work seemed fine, but if you didn't know who they were, their caps certainly wouldn't give you any indication as to who set them: XYZ CORP (changed to protect anonymity), and XYZ had been bought out by ABC, so there is no XYZ as far as I can tell. My preference would be RPLS number, but I suppose Firm No would be good and I could at least feel a little better about the requirement to maintain said Firm No.
Also, I agree regarding recording statute.
Anonymity seems to be very important to some. I'm proud of my work and like seeing my name in the description attached to a deed or on a recorded plat.
8Iron rod set - yea right
There's many ways to scramble eggs.
Had a party chief report "searched, nothing found" on two projects. Years later, when working for a different firm, we found a dozen or so original monuments at his "nothing found" locations, thanks to a sharp PC who noticed no brush work at one location and decided to do a little investigating. Embarrassing to file a ROS calling my earlier ROS bullsh*t.
Turned out the guy was filling his Suburban and ski boat for trips to the river using the company gas card. And he was using company equipment for weekend side jobs. Last I heard he was in hot water for dealing cocaine at a large construction jobsite. An all around bad person for sure.