Increase in productivity standard to robotic total stations.

I think a 2-man + robot construction crew is as productive as a 3 man conventional crew. Solo construction staking is possible, but moves at a snails pace.

Topo with a robot (one man), assuming there are not a lot of obstructions, is IMO faster than with a two person crew. Overall, you are probably about 50% faster at taking shots. There is no pointing and focus time by the I-man. However, you have to key in the code (as opposed to I-man doing it while you walk to the next point) plus there is some delays when the robot loses you and has to regain lock. But overall, I'd say topo is 50% faster under conditions good for robotic use. I still perfer a two man crew on topo jobs, though. So one guy can sketch and take notes while the other locates. Two guys and a robot is the most productive way to get a topo done, IMO.

I'm Solo and use a robot. I ran a few crews for another company many moons ago and know how to budget time for topo's and stakeout. When I got my Trimble 5603 in 2002, I was shooting topo twice as fast as a 2-man crew and I can stakeout just as fast as a two man crew using a conventional gun. If you have two guys staking with a robot mode, you can expect to shave 25% off the stakeout time.

100% increase in productivity when you have skilled people at the helm.

My dad (62) and I (33) beat several constructions sites up with our robot.

Lot jobs, 1 hour, tops me and him where it used to take two to three.

Hope I stayed on point. FWIW, we used a trimble VX. We don't use the scanner much so I wouldn't recommend it. For topo, it's just badassss.

I agree with the previous posts. Topo is at the very minimum twice as fast. Construction staking with a 2 man crew is equal in construction layout to the invention of the light bulb. As long as you keep your instrument calibrated you can trow away your auto level. I know that sounds crazy but I did all stake out and grading with my robot and then checked my work with my auto level for a good 3 months and then spot checked after that without ever finding any error attributed to the instrument. Construction encompasses the vast majority of my surveying experience in the field. I wouldn't think about doing layout without a robot ever again.

GPS/GNSS is just as beneficial. You are sacrificing vertical accuracy (+/- 0.10') for range, line of sight, and reduced/eliminated accumulated error. I was fortunate enough to have both in my truck when I was still in the field and would gladly go toe to toe with any surveyor (note: not traversing through the wilderness. Sometimes it does make sense to do it the old way but rarely) doing topographic work or construction layout conventionally and win 99.9% of the time.

on a topo you can eliminate an iman completely

round numbers
pc = $20 per hour
iman = $15 per hour

75% decrease in total labor cost

or

over a 5 year useful life span of equipment assuming 100% billable hours

robot cost $30,000 + $2,000 yearly maintenance = $40,000
iman salary x 2080 hrs per year x 5 years @1.5 multiplier = $234,000

total savings = $194,000

also - you can remind them of the large tax savings for capital equipment purchase that they would not be able to deduct if they are paying an iman

also more - factor in the tax burden inquired by the employer for the iman

also even more - less employee liabilities (workers comp, holidays, vacation, etc)

Snoop... Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!!!

> > robot cost $30,000 + $2,000 yearly maintenance = $40,000

I don't own a robot, but am looking into one. Can I ask about the $2k maint cost?

That seems high to me. There may be periodic firmware and software costs and the occasional calibration but that is it. I would check with your local dealer to confirm those costs. They will be able to steer you in the right direction based on your specific needs.

Have you determined which brand you are interested in?

Trimble claims an 80% increase in productivity and I believe it.

After using robots for topo and construction staking, I can honestly say that without one, I would find something else to do, such as growing tomatoes.

Using 2 people on a layout crew is fast fast fast....you can really move along.

As for the 2k maintenence cost...Trimble recommends that the instrument comes in for service once a year...

Everything Pseudo said is right on!!! Construction layout solo is a total waste of time and money!

Trimble factory service runs about $550. The survey instrument shops charge more around here but why not get it done at the factory in Dayton and know it's right

before robots I would be lucky to get a 2 man crew to set 80 points in a day on a staking project. Now on pipe layout projects and services we can get 130-150 per day as well as curb. On roadway grade stakes we have done well over 230 points in a day. All trig elevations, never pull a level out anymore.

Snoop. U R on the money. A no $$$ brainer !

Solo surveying depends upon the particular operator, as evident by tangential comments on construction surveying.

Regarding productivity... The surveyor can also work when they need to , then stop calculate and continue with out the fear of an assistant sitting on posterior doing nothing and being paid ( albeit also charged on job). That means can start/ finish work at own convenience with out worrying about getting crew back to office at the designated knock off time and also not worry about sick crew ringing in on day of that urgent survey..

I find with cadastral work I am at the coal front and instantly able to make decisions.

For me and my temperament Solo is economically advantageous in all spheres and that conclusion was proved immediately after first purchasing solo gear in 1999 .

RADU

A robot would slow me down.......;-)

I did a lot survey today, flat, open, new construction. The client is the builder and he wants to build a fence.

I found all the corners and 3 center-line monuments and tied them all with VRS/RTK GPS.

Guess how long it took me.....

Guess how much I billed the client;-)

Cheers,
Dugger

Dugger ,

GPS not always practical. Here in SOZ can survey most of time with out GPS as have network of coordinate marks within 300 metres.

Today it is a combo of TS and GPS.

RADU

To answer Q

Research 1 hour
pre comps 1 hr

on site 2 hours
office 1 hr plan and bill

Bill $1.1 K

I Disagree with Mr. TSR

I find stakeout with a robot a dream. I find, thats where a robot shines.

You real time info on where you are to where you're suppose to be. I think its great!

Now a robot in the thick woods....frustrating!!!!!!!

Increase in productivity GPS than robot as req'd

Im with radar on this one
Have a Geo robot for 12 years now and
if its a good robot site
ITS a BETTER RTK site

No heavy instrument
NO Reset back sight
No Have to move robot
NO have to i could go on and on and on

I have
Two site types BUSH = ROBOT
little BUSH = GPS

You need both
RTK = GNSS AND modern and your own base

$30,000 might be a little light...

I would say more around $50,000 by the time you add everything in the mix

Assumed down payment of: $5,000
Loan request: $25,000

Cost of borrowing = $1,200/year ($6,000 for 5 years)
Yearly insurance on equipment = $1,500/year (7,500$ for 5 years)
Maintenance, repairs & shipping,
+ accessories & other tidbits = $1,500/year ($7,500 for 5 years)

$30,000 now becomes $51,000

$51,000 @ 60 months = $850/month

On a tripod or sitting on a shelf, it's all the same for the "bean counters".

To answer your initial question, in my opinion, it depends of the structure and the culture of your company as well as its work environment. A robot is a delicate and high maintenance instrument: among other things requiring mature operators (if you want to keep your costs down) and protected station locations (both from accidents and thieves). I guess you could ask yourself: "if it was my own money on table, would I think it's a good idea?"

I was talking to a colleague recently who works in the construction industry. Biggest problem that he sees is training the young guys. Client don't want to pay for 2 guys. One guy only with robot or RTK GPS. Young guns need to get experience on real work sites. Parking lot training can only do so much. It's a tough one.

I have a robot/RTK set-up. I really like. But I know that much: A $8,000 total station with a couple of hard working guys that get along and know what they are doing is pretty efficient and cost effective too.

My $0.02 like they say in English.

:beer:

Increase in productivity GPS than robot as req'd

One can't use GPS for elevations...at least tight elevations.
and when building start going up and limiting your sky view, then it can be a problem.