We've all gotten this phone call, usually from some new guy at the Title Company or an Elite Know It All Lawyer. They usually have no concept, or knowledge, of anything called "Table A". They just want a "standard ALTA survey".
In this particular case, this involves an apartment complex of about 10 buildings. I understand that without the benefit of a Table "A' checklist, and going solely by Paragraph 5D, that all I have to show on the buildings is their "foot print" and a distance to the nearest property line only. I've got that part.
BUT, I know what the client is actually looking for and what he is not going to get without a completed Table "A" checklist. Going strictly by Paragraph 5, all I have to show in addition to the buildings is the turn-outs and driveways from the street pavement to the right-of-way line. Without Table "A", item 8 being checked, I do not have to show the paved parking lots or any of the sidewalks except if they come within 5 feet of the property line (Paragraph 5C(ii)). True or False??
I know full well that what they expect to see is all of the buildings, sidewalks and paved parking areas, but without that Item 8 checked off in Table "A" they are simply SOL. Unless they want to pay extra for those features.
Do any of you have different interpretations?? (That's the problem of the current ALTA specs, they leave a LOT to interpretation!!) How do y'all see it???
I see that communication is the life blood of relationships.
IF you want a low stress, survey, you have to have a high stress communication.
This means, sitting down at one table, and run through the check list together. Have your calculator handy.
Keep in YOUR mind what you think they really need.
Keep it real there, at that table, and the end result will be better.
N
Yes, get this often. It is a lack of knowledge on their part. I like to educate them and most of all end up with a happy client rather than one that does not get what they thought they were ordering.
I email them a Table "A" and tell them they need to read it and understand that each item will add to the cost, but they probably want number 8. 🙂
Standard: something established by authority, custom, or general consent as a model or example
A "standard" ALTA survey is not a survey with no Table A items; it's a survey with the items generally needed to move the process forward in the market you work in.
The way I see it, they called me because I'm a consultant who's an expert in the subject at hand, so I tell them what they need right off the bat. In this situation I'd just send the client my standard ALTA proposal that scopes:
...and will include Items 1, 2, 3, 4, 6(a), 7(a), 8, 9, 10(a), 11(a), 13, 16 and 18 of "Table A, Optional Survey Responsibilities and Specifications," thereof.
After dealing with the local bankers in the Jackson area, I have found that they want to see a complete ALTA showing most items on Table A, but word it as a Class B Survey with a Surveyor's Inspection Report. This is where you have to be careful to not under-estimate your services and ask as many questions up front as possible in order to determine exactly what the client is needing. The scope creep and budget get out of hand once the closing attorneys get involved and you have to continuously make repeat trips to the site. Just my $0.02
I fill out table A and send it back for approval. I also tell them the things that can drive a price up, or may be valuable in the future. Such as, do you really need contours and topography? Maybe if future development is in the works, but not so if it's just a re-fi.
Like Larry P taught me, give them options and they will choose one :-), Usually the one that offers more than they were originally looking for!
>Such as, do you really need contours and topography? Maybe if future development is in the works, but not so if it's just a re-fi.
FWIW - I hate putting topography on an ALTA; the last thing I want to waste my time doing is explaining contour interval to some paralegal at the lender's counsel.
I always break the ALTA and topo into two line items on the proposal and deliver two surveys.
Another thing to keep in mind as we wade through this mess is that when they say they need a standard ALTA, what they are really saying ios "I need as cheap a survey I can get my hands on".
The "cheaper" survey will include NO sidewalks or paved parking areas.
Now I have suggested that all ALTA survey requests should end up with a sit-down and go over Table A with the client. A telephoned in request for a "standard ALTA survey" can only lead to heartburn.
Basic question remains; an I correct in saying that following ONLY the main body of the ALTA specs, all that is requirted of me is to show building footprints with perpendicular distances to the nearest property line, other improvements within 5 feet of the property lines and all curb cuts, driveways and other access to the property only to the right-of-way lines as far as "improvements" go??
HOLY CRAP!! Kevin you live less than 4 blocks from me!! When the weather settles down a bit, come on over to Angelia Lane and we'll do a mini-Beerlegger!! 😀
> Basic question remains; an I correct in saying that following ONLY the main body of the ALTA specs, all that is required of me is to show building footprints with perpendicular distances to the nearest property line, other improvements within 5 feet of the property lines and all curb cuts, driveways and other access to the property only to the right-of-way lines as far as "improvements" go??
Yes, that's it. Except you left out evidence of unrecorded easements and servitudes. But, basically, the buildings and the boundary fences. A mortgage survey that is really a survey.
Give me a call at WGK and we'll make arrangements.
>...when they say they need a standard ALTA, what they are really saying ios "I need as cheap a survey I can get my hands on".
I have something just in case of situations like this...the phone number of three competitors right at my fingertips 😉
I think you are confusing a "standard" ALTA survey with a "minimum" ALTA survey (but recognizing there is no definition of either of those terms). To me, standard means everything needed to allow anyone to immediately recognize the site, and the title company to cover any exceptions. I would certainly include all of the visible physical features.
I refuse to do an ALTA until I get Table A checked off. Most of the time, they opt for a standard contract (and lower price) for a boundary with improvements.
The last request I got for one was 2 months ago. I scanned and emailed Table A to him and told him he had to fill it out. His response was "Wow. That is exhaustive! I have never seen that before. Let me take a look and get back to you. Thanks!" He then said that he'd ordered "dozens" of ALTA's and no one had EVER sent him that form to fill out. He opted for my standard survey that shows everything anyway.
Will do. I'm a CadMonkey at Maptech, so we should have some good tales to swap. 😀
I see a lot of that too. What I am wondering is WHO is telling these people that they MUST have an ALTA? Generally I find that the person saying that has NEVER heard of Table A either. :-X
Everone "knows" that you "must" have an ALTA, but very few know what an ALTA entails. May the Good Lord save us from paralegals those with degrees so new that the ink hasn't dried on them yet. There are so many "experts" that just don't have a clue!! :-O
Someone is required to address Table A as per the standards.
Request for Survey - The client shall request the survey or arrange for the survey to be requested, and shall provide a written authorization to proceed from the person or entity responsible for paying for the survey. Unless specifically authorized in writing by the insurer, the insurer shall not be responsible for any costs associated with the preparation of the survey. The request shall specify that an "ALTA/ACSM LAND TITLE SURVEY" is required and which of the optional items listed in Table A herein, if any, are to be incorporated
Thanks for the help BTW, it is greatly appreciated.
To me a "Standard ALTA/ACSM LAND TITLE SURVEY" is one that embraces page 1 and all the pages up to and including the page just prior to the TABLE A items. These are the "minimum standards". I would provide the standards to the potential client and advise them that a survey that does not meet the minimum standards is not actually an ALTA survey.They do want to get what they paid for right?
"Request for Survey - The client shall request the survey or arrange for the survey to be requested, and shall provide a written authorization to proceed from the person or entity responsible for paying for the survey. Unless specifically authorized in writing by the insurer, the insurer shall not be responsible for any costs associated with the preparation of the survey. The request shall specify that an "ALTA/ACSM LAND TITLE SURVEY" is required and which of the optional items listed in Table A herein, if any, are to be incorporated"
There's the rub. That is what the call a "Standard ALTA". :pinch:
Glad I could help. If you need anything else, just let me know. I have LOTS of training materials that I have stolen obtained from various sources.