I helped a friend mark his mother in-laws line

> we found that about 60' of the new fence is as much as 0.4' over the line.

I would tell them that if this really bothers them then there is plenty of land available in rural Idaho for them to build a compound and withdraw from society; because anyone who places more importance in 20 square feet of "their" lot over the goodwill and fellowship of their neighbors has no business living in a suburban subdivision.

James, that is so sentimental. But, I like it!

🙂

N

I would tell them to write a very nice letter to the neighbor telling them what you found but that it is OK, with permission, to leave the fence as is. This will put a stop to any adverse possession nonsense or acquiesence issues down the road. At least that would be effective in Virginia and I think most states.

To her, it's more about principle, than it is about goodwill and fellowship. Where was her neighbors goodwill and fellowship,when he built his fence over the line? He knew where the line was and built it over anyway; he took advantage of an aging widow, grieving over her dead husband.

FWIW, I agree Jim. It looks ugly with 2 different fences. I haven't talked to her, but if I do, I'm going to suggest that she tear down her old fence and accept the neighbors fence as-built and thank him for paying for the whole thing.

But that probably isn't going to happen; I do not envy my friend and having to deal with the angst of his wife and mother in-law.....

Cheers

Robert Frost's Poem: Mending Wall - excerpt - "Good fences make good neighbors."
With that said I have seen some pretty rough agruments between neighbors over a fence. The police were called to quell the disturbance on several occasions.
Washington has some laws concernings fences as I am sure you are aware. Here is one of them: 16.60.055 - Fence on the land of another by mistake -- Removal.
SOP: Inform the client of any problems affecting title and thereafter it is the client's problem. It's tough when friends/relations are involved. Good Luck.

> To her, it's more about principle, than it is about goodwill and fellowship

To my way of thinking, goodwill and fellowship are principles, in fact pretty darn important ones.

> Where was her neighbors goodwill and fellowship,when he built his fence over the line?

"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

>He knew where the line was and built it over anyway; he took advantage of an aging widow, grieving over her dead husband.

What possible advantage can one gain by enclosing an additional 5" of land out in the suburbs?

FWIW - I'm just being difficult and argumentative for it's own sake, but 20+ years of watching people fight over tiny scraps of land eventually take's it's toll.

I should be in a better mood, my local PBS station is rerunning the Inspector Morse prequel Endeavour tonight 🙂

> but 20+ years of watching people fight over tiny scraps of land eventually take's it's toll.

I know, right?

Does telling them they are being petty, really do any good?

[flash width=480 height=360] http://www.youtube.com/v/QXfuQ97rG8s?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0 [/flash]

I agree with Dave that she should make it known in writing as friendly as possible that she is aware that the fence was built on her property according to a survey done by licensed surveyor [name] on [date]. It would bother me that this was done, but it would not be worth a long term fight over or having to pay an attorney to get involved.

I believe the aforementioned letters to the neighbor would be considered granting a "licensed use" of the property which would stop any future adverse possession claims. A license is revocable at any time (if things got nasty). If the neighbor will sign, then get the instrument recorded.

If the father in-law were still alive, this would've never happened. He would've went and talked the neighbor at the first sign of doing anything along the line. The neighbor took full advantage of a poor grieving widow and built his fence any damn where he pleased.

This may, or may not be true, but it's what the mother in-law thinks, and that's what's at issue.

> FWIW - I'm just being difficult and argumentative for it's own sake

Please don't think that I don't appreciate you arguing; because I do. It's discussions like this that help devise the best solution; every conflict should be resolved in this manner....;-)

Something to help

http://minnesotamamasmusthaves.com/2009/12/looking-for-fun-stocking-stuffer-for.html

It is satin smooth, and reduces friction.

N

I have no idea what the property values are in your area but at $100,000/acre, that would be $55.00 worth of land.

James

Nate

There's something about you that just ain't right 🙂

Don

Goodwill wins. Tell her to give the neighbor permission in writing and record the same. If she wants a more formal document, it should be in the form of a license with gave criteria for termination.
Can't have adverse possession without adversity.

She/got a $3000(?) fence and lost $60 of property. I suggest a letter from her to the neighbor acknowledging the encroaching fence but she'ld be happy to tear hers down and not fight the encroachment in exchange for their maintaining their fence.

I dread more than anything not getting along w/my neighbors. They have the potential of making your life miserable.

Nate

Don, have you ever heard somebody say "Well, that just chaps my ___?" Well, this reduces chapping! 🙂

She will have to stand up for her rights and not be wronged by the neighbor. She has to do that for her dearly departed husband. She will have to do that for her surveyor son. She has the law on her side and she will have to get the neighbor to remove the fence that he built over the line. Of course you already know that and so now we can just proceed with the actual process. That is really what you have asked for, right?

Since you are the PLS that is not related to her, you get the pleasure of preparing a drawing showing the encroachment. Then since you are the surveyor you can write her a letter explaining the options of what she might do with the encroachment. Then she can prepare her own letter (with the help of her son and his PLS friend) to the neighbor, attaching your letter and drawing, asking him to properly relocate the fence onto his own land. She could offer that if he likes the idea of placing the new fence on the property line, she is fine with that and will have her fence removed so that he can place it there. In fact she can offer to pay for half of the cost of the new fence which would be placed on the property line as is common practice among neighbors.

Of course now that you are into it, you will mark the property line for the new fence and you will also be obligated to help her son remove her old fence. Maybe as a goodwill gesture, her son and his PLS friend will also help the neighbor reconstruct the new fence on the property line. WOW, you are a good friend indeed!

I suggest that this will go a long way toward improving their lives as they are living next door to each other and her daughter lives right across the street.

First Request That The Neighbor Provide A Survey

A letter from the mother,

"I believe that you have constructed a fence on my property. Please have your property surveyed, and if such is the case kindly remove said fence. If it is neccessary that I engage a surveyor to prove such is the case, I will seek reimbursement of my costs, removal as well as damages and legal expenses."

Of course before you do this you want to be absolutely sure of the fences locations, so surveying one line does not cut it.

Paul in PA

I swear some people would use a cannon to kill flies.