This rarely happens and when it does, it really gets my head swimming.
I have a client who "just wanted one line staked". The parcel is in a Large Lot Subdivision, done in 1995. It seems his neighbor is mowing what he thinks is his property and they just want to know for sure.
On the first site visit, I search for the corners on the line and in the immediate area and find nothing. All of the lines are mostly in thick brush, more blackberries than anything else and the line I need to stake is over 1000' and 2/3's of it fall down about 300' in elevation to a creek.
I keep looking for other corners in the plat and come up with a couple that are about 300' apart. I go back to the van and calc up the search positions for my line and still find nothing. The distance between the 2 corners I find is 1.13' long. The neighbor comes out and says he saw a lath with flagging about 8 years, in the general vicinity and still, I find nothing. I even looked again for corners between my line and the ones I found, nothing there either.
Some of the dimensions are hard to read, on the plat so I call the guy up who did it and tells me to stop by his office and he will verify the dimensions for me. We go over the numbers and I see I'm off by 4 degrees, that must be it. I go back out for a second visit and still, I can't find anything on my line. I find 5 more corners in the plat and go back to the office and try to make them all fit. I have a couple that are pretty close but there is no rhyme or reason the rest of them. I go back out for a third time with the latest search position, about 18' from the last one and clear out about 200 sq. ft. of real estate and still, nothing.
I found 7 brass caps in an adjoining plat that all fit very well with each other. I put the 2 plats together and find that a couple of corners in my plat fit within about 5' or so. I'm now armed with a new search position and will be leaving shortly to see if I can't find at least one corner on the line (the one the neighbor thinks he saw 8 years ago).
Now this is where the confusion comes in. It's not how do I find this line. I've been surveying for over 35 years; I know when I'm making mistakes, I know how to use found evidence to resolve my clients boundary, I know how to stake this line so that any other surveyor could retrace what I've done and come to the same conclusions I have.
I do not keep track of hours, I tell the client how much it's going to cost and that is what I bill him.
The problem I have is, who do I send the bill for the extra time to?
TIA for any and all responses.
I hope you have a great day I know I will
Dugger
> The problem I have is, who do I send the bill for the extra time to?
Well, 🙁 I would have to say you for taking the job on lump sum.
Jim
Sad, but, true. You get an education.
Dear RADAR:
Sorry, that's a tuff spot.
But, with all due respect, there are no "extra" hours involved. Most calls begin with, "I only need one corner set", or "I only need one line staked". As if we have a bag of lines in the truck to arbitrarily throw out. That simply is not possible. If it were that simple, straight forward and easy, the position would already be known and the survey unnecessary.
In our professional parlance, you were asked to perform a retracement. Which involves not only the entirety of the subject parcel, but also all adjoiners, and quite possibly - and more than likely - several adjoiners down the line in all directions. How can we be certain otherwise?
This is why most states require this research methodolgy in our licensing rules.
To allow to continue uncorrected, the client's conversation and mind set puts you in a bad way; one that you cannot accept professionally. i'm sorry, please do not take this as a flame, demeaning, nor condescending. Truth be told, every one of us have been backed into a corner on this kind of job.
Use the analogy of the line of dominoes, a chair with one leg missing, ordering a new car without an engine - whatever that gets the concept accross that crucial missing boundary elements require corrobative support, which necessarily requires that a much larger area must be analyzed on a greater scale and then, properly documented. That cannot be performed with a driveby of "...just one line".
The best that you can hope for now is to walk away; or, explain the situation, complete it properly and hope the client won't stick you with the bill.
all the best,
david in Winamac
Doing this kind of work on a time and materials basis, not to exceed an agreed upon amount without prior client authorization, seems a better way to handle these types of jobs. Obviously, most people would prefer to have someone quote $400 to do a boundary, especially after hearing other quotes for $500.
RADAR:
my way...
1. Use your post as an outline of a letter to your client explaining the difficulties and ambiguities in his boundary and your solution to His Problem. Just flesh it out with a few more specifics, you write well, you are 70% done. Make sure you are letting him know, in a subtle way, that the diligence you are exercising is To Protect Him with His Problem.
No mention of money.
2. Dial the phone or stop by and chat. Discuss the situation.
No mention of money.
3. Send an invoice for the contract amount in your normal billing cycle.
4. Include a handwritten note saying it was a challenge and a looser but you are glad you could help him out.
5. Log the remaining cost to advertising. You have just turned a looser project into a promotional effort.
Quick question: would we be having this discussion if you wrapped it up in 2 days when you had anticipated it would take all week? oh, would you have reduced the fee?
Sucks doesn't it? Do I do this? Not often enough. 🙂
well done Peter!
:good:
dla
Thanks David: If I had done this all along I would be rich and famous... belay that, I am rich and famous!;-)
Radar:
I forgot one key point in my recipe... don't send the letter until after the phone call or face to face conversation, you may need to revise it... send it edited as confirming the conversation.
If you gave the client a firm fixed price for the survey, bill him for your time and discount it to the fixed price and learn from your actions. Hopefully your client will pay the agreed amount promptly.:beer:
Thanks everyone, those were some great responses.
I already new the answer (you win some, you lose some) I just wanted some reassurance and possibly a magic way to make the money appear.
This is a great board with great people. Thanks Wendell and Angel, for all of your hard work. It's to bad the other board didn't follow the same route.
Douglas Casement
I hate to see stuff like this cut into your Alaska fishing fund.
🙂
