How Lazy Are Surveyors ? To Complain About Ancient Surveys ?

Paul,

Unless your sole purpose is to be argumentative, I think you've completely missed the essence of Kent's post; producing repeatable results from very limited physical attributes.

How lazy are surveyors who won't be challenged to make a difference with some longevity?

You have a check in the mail?

Ha ha ha a hah a hahahahahahhahahah

Sniff/

he hehehehhehehehehe

hmmm really?

It got sent to some weird address!! (Not yours)

🙂

N

Kent Is Whining About The Prior Work Of Surveyors

who had fewer resources, fewer tools and oft times less education.

I am rather pleased they did as well as they did.

Any change Kent wants to make on the future is on Kent and he can proudly brag about it. He cannot require it from others.

If Kent truly wants to affect the future he should volunteer to work on the "Surveying Body of Knowledge", which survey educators have yet to agree on. Once it is established what one should know, then the next step is what to do with that knowledge. Kent's cart sits alone on the road waiting for the horse to catch up.

Paul in PA

Kent Is Whining About The Prior Work Of Surveyors

> If Kent truly wants to affect the future he should volunteer to work on the "Surveying Body of Knowledge", which survey educators have yet to agree on.

I thought, based upon what Kent posted, that was what he was attempting to do.

Kent Is Whining About What?

> who had fewer resources, fewer tools and oft times less education.

Uh, what? I was posting about surveys made in the last ten years or so, not the 19th century. I started making solar observations for azimuth more than thirty years ago, so I know how easy it would have been to have done even for the unGPSing.

Even 10 Years Ago...

There were Surveyors "who had fewer resources, fewer tools and oft times less education" than you Kent. Still true today.

Kent can only control what Kent does.

Kent could begin to hold Texas CEU classes on his easy methods. The market will tell him how many are truly interested.

Paul in PA

Nate, You Want I should Call You Tonight

To wish you a Happy New Year? Every Time Zone?

That statement was an example.

Paul in PA

Nate, You Want I should Call You Tonight

OK, call me! Its raining now.

N

PS your check for $50 is here!

🙂

N

Even 10 Years Ago...

My point is that when it is possible to do this as easily as it can be done, it approaches negligence not to. It was easy thirty years ago and is only easier today. Fact. If it bothers you to think about this, I can't help you, I'm afraid.

How lazy are surveyors to reference to some ethereal place called North and not really know if their survey is truly related to it?

Ignorance is a poor poor excuse. There is plenty of information available to learn how to determine North and by extension, "Grid" North. Surveyors have been relating surveys to astronomic North for a long time, without benefit of precise time and location. What's a modern surveyor's legitimate excuse?

> Surveyors have been relating surveys to astronomic North for a long time, without benefit of precise time and location. What's a modern surveyor's legitimate excuse?

Yeah, the K&E Company issued a new solar ephemeris every year. Our local dealer was passing them out for free as New Year approached. As I recall, the ephemeris gave fairly detailed instructions, particularly about making altitude observations for azimuth which did not require exact time or a good longitude.

Very accurate results can be obtained from Polaris at any hour angle and precise time is not required.

> Very accurate results can be obtained from Polaris at any hour angle and precise time is not required.

The few times I've made Polaris observations, I was unimpressed by the results, which were not markedly better than an hour-angle observation on the Sun. (s.e. of +/-1" Polaris vs. +/- 2" Sun, as I recall) This was at night, though, and the working by flashlight with reticle illumination I'm sure figured into things.

The excuse seems to have to do with not breaking the record. No one (apparently) wants to break the record and be liable for some kind of slander of title on the deed description ..

Place I work now uses GPS all the time but by the time it reaches the record of survey, it has been rotated either to plat or to someone else's survey ... meridian assumed, basis of bearing as found between these two monuments ... that's how they do it here in the big city, at least in the developed areas -- anything platted -- some will report record and measured for a sectional subdivision outside town but more likely hold a record section breakdown and deed bearing/distance wherever there isn't a discrepancy of more than half a foot. Both in and out of town you get the "found iron pipe 0.39' N and 0.41' W of calc" labels, which is sort of like record and measured but in a condescending kind of way.

I learned the "show record and measured, maybe even on grid somehow" from you heretics here on the internet ...

I'd have to say I kinda' like the idea of a call for an adjoiner or prior survey.
Not only does it promote a contiguity(?) of sorts, but also keeps a guy like me, with a shovel, in business 🙂 HNY LPL

You should be able to do it blindfolded!

> You should be able to do it blindfolded

I'll keep that in mind.

From this end of the world I can only say how I value an old survey that states its bearing datum as per solar observations etc.
That way with only ONE point found and then knowing the bearing (Azimuth - or how you people refer to it) one can traverse off into the job knowing where to look for known marks.
Yes that's on the assumption they didn't stuff up there bearings and also they didn't stuff up elsewhere.

But often surveyors would do 2 sun obs and close their work.

I hate jobs where the successive surveys are for some unknown reason 1° or more/ less different from the one its going off. Doesn't happen often but when it does it makes one scratch the head.

Yes - we surveyors are supposed to know how to survey.
What would most (modern) surveyors attitude be if I rocked up and said I don't know how to use a GPS and download and use all modern means available?
I could argue, what do I need that for. I've got my old total station.

I reckon a good operator could do a sunshot quicker than setting up an RTK or other GPS (from cold) and be away with the results at hand.
Might be an interesting comparison.

> Yes - we surveyors are supposed to know how to survey.
> What would most (modern) surveyors attitude be if I rocked up and said I don't know how to use a GPS and download and use all modern means available?

Yes, and with modern equipment orienting a survey to grid or astronomic/geodetic North is just too easy. Not doing it is almost like intentionally choosing to set inferior marks, making the boundary difficult to find again.