spiral ROWs are an abomination.?ÿ
Hopefully the complaints and discussions to the DOT removed them from future design.
However, the guy that was on board with putting a stop to it retired.?ÿ
It's remarkable how little the mid-point of a curve will differ between a typical spiral-curve-spiral and a simple curve.?ÿ
I'm putting together a property line against an interstate highway, the right of way was designed in the 1950's, simple curves, nearest minute bearings, curves all designed using degree of curve, jogs at even stations, PCs, PTs or property/section lines, frankly a pleasure to work with.
Then nearby is a state highway designed in the early 2000's: ROW spiral-curve-spiral, jogs 15-30' beyond the TS or before the ST, very messy.
From a practical viewpoint I completely agree, but I do enjoy the variety and challenge when I do come across them.?ÿ
But there is no particular reason the right of way curves have to be tangent.?ÿ
Unless it's to keep from contempt,
by those who come behind you! 😉
?ÿ
@nate-the-surveyor Yeah, seems maybe the better way to do it is to shoot the EP and split it.?ÿ Think anyone will pay for that??ÿ ???
Many years ago I was shooting the EP of an entrance ramp to Florida's Tpk. There was a lot of overpoured pavement, and I wasn't sure if I should shoot along the overpour or along the part that the cars actually drive on. I was thinking that if they were going to demolish the ramp, they would need to know the amount of pavement to replace it with. I think I shot both the EP and the white stripe that ran outside the driving surface. What are your thoughts on that?
I've done it. I've dreamed of a "centering device" to shoot cl, via ep. (Edge pavement)
With my javad, I've put it into "trajectory mode", and driven both edges of pavement, and it worked very well.
Thank you,
Nate
@field-dog That sounds more like a design topo than a boundary survey.?ÿ When I've had a situation like that though I shot the top and bottom of the shoe.?ÿ I don't think the fog line would be anymore reliable than the centerline paint but maybe that's the best option sometimes.
This thread has been all about road center lines but something similar happens with respect to railroads.?ÿ Where the main line is located today may be close or many feet from anything you can find written on paper.?ÿ Things get realigned a little bit every time the railroad maintenance crews replace ties.?ÿ But, a recent job was set adjacent to one railroad as it passed through a city and then crossed a different railroad a few hundred feet from our tracts.?ÿ Very old surveys showed the center line of the main track for the full distance from a point south of our tracts to the crossing of the railroads as being a straight line with the center line being 50 feet from one ROW line and 150 feet from the other ROW line for a 200 foot total.?ÿ Newer, but still over 60 year old surveys showed the center line being 90 feet from one ROW line and 110 feet from the other.?ÿ Today there is a straight stretch that has been used by surveyors in the past 40 years as being the true center line and being the 90/110 situation, but then a double curve begins to happens resulting in a very different crossing angle of the other railroad.?ÿ The city plat laid out blocks with angled sides adhering to the 200 foot wide ROW.?ÿ We had fun locating about 30 survey points on either side of the track to confirm where the straight line edges of the ROW were determined to be many years ago and perpetuated.
As to using the center lines or fog lines as painted on highways, do so at your own risk.?ÿ I served on a board for six years with a fellow who is the paint truck driver for the DOT area office for roughly 18 counties.?ÿ He may be sober as a judge while at work but I never saw him fully sober, but once, outside of working hours.?ÿ His home life was/is a disaster due to major health problems for his wife.
I worked for County & State DOT organizations for 25 years and monumentation of R/W is very low on their punch list; concrete, asphalt, earthwork, structures, drainage is where the millions of dollars are spent.?ÿ I finally figured out why; no adjacent owner will win against a claim of R/W, sovereignty will reign.?ÿ And most landowners are overjoyed when a modern pavement route runs adjacent to their ownership.?ÿ So why accurately monument R/W, actual use (and abuse) and an army of salaried lawyers will always win.
Concerning the difficulty of surveying adjacent landowner's R/W boundaries?ÿ I go first with found monuments (ignore non tangent curves, et. al.), down to the actual C/L for a calc'd xxfoot R/W.?ÿ Just show existing conditions concerning monumentation & actual location and let God or the Courts sort it out.
Modern ROW's usually far exceed the width neccesary for public use. So the ROW boundaries often have a bigger impact on the landowners than the highways. Most DOTs will take aggressive measures to kick landowners out of ROWs, even when there is no obvious impact on the road or road maintenance.
In most states there is no such thing as the Goverment claiming land by adverse possession or prescription. Just like landowners can't claim against the State, the State can't claim against private property. They can always?ÿ try to condemn the land, but what usually happens when the ROW and the actual use of a ROW don't match is that the public establishes a prescriptive easment, that the State then maintains.?ÿ
Unless there is close to a 100% certainty that the requirements for a prescriptive easment have been met you are doing your clients a disservice by not pointing out that the public/State may he using more of their property than they are entitled to. Your clients may often come to the conclusion that the fight isn't worth it, but that isn't a decision for a land surveyor to make.?ÿ