First, a short lesson about agriculture. ?ÿThere is a form of livestock feed known as silage. ?ÿThe most common silage is made by chopping green corn (stalks,ears and all) into a slimy, semi-solid mass of goo. ?ÿThis high protein product is then stored such that a great deal of fermentation takes place over time prior to moving it into feed bunks for the livestock. ?ÿOne common storage method involves tall, circular concrete silos. ?ÿAn old method involves digging a large trench in an area with deep soils and storing the silage there. ?ÿA third method of storage involves two, large, thick. parallel concrete walls with the silage stored and packed between those walls.
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Today's bizarre ring ring involves the third method. ?ÿNo silage is involved, just the bare concrete walls, separated by 30 feet or more.
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A banker is attempting to help a local farmer use a quarter section of farm land as collateral to obtain a loan that will then be used to pay off other debts. ?ÿThe only manmade thing on that quarter section is a pair of silo walls that have not be used for years. ?ÿThe bank submits all loan applications to one of those flood determination firms that merely looks at online flood maps. ?ÿThey have decided the pair of walls constitutes a structure and that structure appears to fall within a Zone A area. ?ÿThey insist those walls be covered by a flood insurance policy or be removed by means of a LOMA. ?ÿEveryone involved, except the village idiots at the flood determination firm, knows how foolish this is. ?ÿThey have even had a flood insurance company provide a letter declaring the pair of walls to not be insurable for flood loss. ?ÿThat common sense approach was not accepted.
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They will probably go with my solution. ?ÿI can create a 3-acre tract that happens to include the concrete walls , conforming to a county zoning minimum for rural tracts. ?ÿThen the bank will use the remainder of the quarter section for collateral, leaving the 3-acre tract debt free.
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Why not just demo the walls if they haven't been used in years?
Here in CA I've seen what I always assumed was a silage storage solution, but maybe I'm mistaken:?ÿ they look like enormous white polyethylene bags that are packed tight with material and sealed on both ends.?ÿ Do they use those in KS?
Jim,
That was my first suggestion to them but the landowner had indicated he might use them in the future.
You are correct about the enormous bags. ?ÿThat is a widely used practice today for silage storage. ?ÿA similar practice is to bale forage into common big bales and insert them into a huge sealed plastic bags then pump anhydrous ammonia into the bag. ?ÿIt will soak into the hay, raising the protein value tremendously.
Finally had a chance to look at the site on GoogleEarth, the appraiser's map and the flood map. ?ÿThe walls are about 300 feet horizontally from the blue area indicating Zone A, so very probably several feet above flood. ?ÿI think the problem is that the aerial used with the flood map does not clearly show the location of the walls, but the GoogleEarth view is a winter scene such that there are no leaves to obscure the walls.
This whole thing is ludicrous. ?ÿThis is near the very top of an area of localized flooding only in a pasture. ?ÿIf water were to somehow back up enough to touch the walls, there would be no harm. ?ÿThere is no connecting wall between them to provide any kind of containment.
What real authority does the flood determination company have? I may be wrong, but I always thought that they were just an advisory to the bank, who made the real decision to loan or not. It appears that everybody in your story except the flood determination people have some sense, so why doesn't the bank just take that under advisement, and make the loan anyway?
Common sense has flown out the window.?ÿ
Wouldn't it just be cheaper and easier to do an elevation cert than cut out 3 acres?
I understand that the flood determination companies flag property that has ANY flood zone on it. They try don??t determine whether or not structures or in or out.
What real authority does the flood determination company have? I may be wrong, but I always thought that they were just an advisory to the bank, who made the real decision to loan or not. It appears that everybody in your story except the flood determination people have some sense, so why doesn't the bank just take that under advisement, and make the loan anyway?
Common sense has flown out the window.?ÿ
Because most lending institutions immediately resell the mortgages, it's not just a local matter.?ÿ They want them to have no red flags for other institutions.
Unbelievable.?ÿ?ÿ Yep, common sense is a rare commodity?ÿfor sure.
Speaking of commodities, corn silage is a high energy feed, relatively low in protein content.?ÿ ??ÿ
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I'm with Scott on this one. Or are you sure the walls are in the flood plain?
This whole thing is ludicrous. ?ÿThis is near the very top of an area of localized flooding only in a pasture. ?ÿIf water were to somehow back up enough to touch the walls, there would be no harm. ?ÿThere is no connecting wall between them to provide any kind of containment.
Of course there would be harm. What if all his silage were to float away? Or be contaminated by petroleum products floating on the surface of the floodwaters? Whose going to pay for the loss of all that nutritional gold?
What real authority does the flood determination company have? I may be wrong, but I always thought that they were just an advisory to the bank, who made the real decision to loan or not. It appears that everybody in your story except the flood determination people have some sense, so why doesn't the bank just take that under advisement, and make the loan anyway?
Common sense has flown out the window.?ÿ
The bank would probably be unwilling to ignore a determination made by a flood determination company - after all, they probably paid $5 for the determination...
There is no insurable structure. ?ÿShould silage ever be placed between those walls there would still be no payment for "contents". ?ÿThis would compare to insisting there be a flood policy on a 400 year-old New England rock fence.
As to the relative cost of a three acre survey versus an elevation certificate being produced, it would be very close to the same cost either way. ?ÿThe certificate might confirm the walls are in the flood plain, which would be bad. ?ÿIf the certificate proved the walls were not in the flood plain then a LOMA application could be submitted with a response from our bureaucrats ?ÿpossibly in 2018, but they are really wanting to make the loan ASAP. ?ÿI could whip out the simple 3-acre survey in short order as I have previously used the two government corners required. ?ÿThe landowner would be committing three acres less to the loan, which the bank indicates is no problem. ?ÿThe landowner would have a tract he could sell to someone should he ever want to do so.
We have made quite a number of similar surveys that only happened to satisfy some quirk with the mortgage requirements.
"The bank submits all loan applications to one of those flood determination firms"
Does this mean a Flood determination firms observation from maps supersedes a flood elevation certificate prepared by an LS?
They will "adjust" their determination`if another licensed professional puts his neck on the chopping block to save the FD company's neck.
