Now that I have your attention. In all my years I've never come across this exact question. How far above your property lines do you own? This question arose from a discussion on of all things, drones. If one should fly above your property, do you have the right to say, shoot it down, as it is trespassing?
I'm sure it varies from State to State.
In Oklahoma our legislature was more concerned about "wind" rights rather than airspace, but it is basically the same. The airspace above a property is a part of the property. I have prepared hundreds of documents for airspace easements for runways extension and airport expansion.
On a lighter note, I have also prepared "stink easements" that were purchased by a sewage treatment plant from adjoining property owners.
Here's the poop on Oklahoma:
"Senate Bill 1787 (the “Property Act”) became effective on July 1, 2010. The Property Act provided for a new law, codified in the Oklahoma Statutes at 60 O.S. § 820.1 as part of the Oklahoma Airspace Act, and amended two provisions of the Oklahoma Airspace Act, 60 O.S. §§ 803 and 805, to conform them to the new law. There is current pending legislation that would include the Property Act under a new Oklahoma act entitled the “Airspace Severance Restriction Act.”
Prior to the enactment of the Property Act, the Oklahoma Airspace Act had provided, since 1973, that airspace was real property that initially belonged to the surface estate but was capable of being separately transferred, etc. to one other than the owner of the surface estate. In other words, the airspace above real property could be severed from the surface estate and transferred separately from the surface estate in much the same way the mineral estate can be severed from the surface estate and separately transferred."
I guess you could nail a drone if it was over your property....as long as the "Air Space" was duly POSTED: NO AIR TRAFFIC - VIOLATORS WILL BE GROUNDED BY SMALL ARMS FIRE.
Trouble is....where are you going to post the sign? :pinch:
I would counter that question with the question. And, when your shot misses the drone, where will your bullet land? Do you have permission for that?
You have the airspace rights that you can reasonably use and trespass laws can apply. How they will be tested in court for drones will be another matter. Does the Airspace have to be posted? Such as Trespassing on the ground? How does this vary state to state? I have seen companies (fee charging website) popping up that will create a NO-Fly ZONE around your property and the hope is that these published zones will be written into drone manufacturers software. See Link
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/hate-drones-this-new-website-lets-you-create-a-110632205119.html
I imagine just like property rights, the legal elements of all of this may vary by jurisdiction and may change upon Drone rules being actually adopted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_rights
Do you have the right to fire a gun in the air? Yes, but you also own the responsibility for where it lands.
This was a totally theoretical question. Any responsible gun owner knows his/her responsibilities. Should he miss his/her target, or shoot through it. My question was more about property rights.
Doesn't the FAA rule that the minimum altitude for aircraft is 500 feet sort of limit it?
500 ft rule
An aircraft must maintain an altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
1000 ft rule
An aircraft must maintain an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons.
Doesn't a form of Public Trust Doctrine extend to the skies? I could swear that the jet liner heading from NY to Europe is over my land. And the Cessna dropping FoggyIdea out with a parachute absolutely went over my property ([sarcasm]I'll give Don after the fact permission for that one time, but don't let it happen again mister Poole![/sarcasm]).
Wouldn't the air be considered a road or a way? The FAA seems to give some guidelines with there heights above ground which would imply an automatic diminished rights of the ownership above.
I have to read up on the drone rules. There is a little airport in the middle of my Town and the only dry portions within 5 miles are National Seashore where drones are prohibited by the Dept. of Interior.
> ....My question was more about property rights.
You did ask:
> do you have the right to say, shoot it down, as it is trespassing?
Your first question was more like: is it tresspassing?
Laws are one thing; interpretation and enforcement are another....
I believe the optimum word here is "damage"
> This was a totally theoretical question. Any responsible gun owner knows his/her responsibilities. Should he miss his/her target, or shoot through it.
I agree and knew you did as well.;-) I just sort of mentioned the bit about responsibility in closing.:-D
> My question was more about property rights.
Thats why I posted the links, but they are not all inclusive thats for sure.:-S
Radar is right with the post about proof of damage for trespass but how long till someone wins with "emotional damage from the thought of being spied upon from the air.":-/
I feel it's going to get a bit hairy for a while until some court cases are settled about drones. 😐 Even though the rules will be in the landowners favor, the weekend warrior drone crowd will only make things bad for those of us who will have an interest in the commercial aspect of it.
> Radar is right with the post about proof of damage for trespass but how long till someone wins with "emotional damage from the thought of being spied upon from the air.":-/
But that was a dozen years ago.
My understanding is that shooting down a UAV is just as illegal as shooting at any other aircraft, regardless of whether it's over your property or not.
United States v. Causby, 328 U.S. 256 (1946)
Held:
1. A servitude has been imposed upon the land for which respondents are entitled to compensation under the Fifth Amendment.
(a) The common law doctrine that ownership of land extends to the periphery of the universe has no place in the modern world.
(b) The air above the minimum safe altitude of flight prescribed by the Civil Aeronautics Authority is a public highway and part of the public domain, as declared by Congress in the Air Commerce Act of 1926, as amended by the Civil Aeronautics Act of 1938.
(c) Flights below that altitude are not within the navigable air space which Congress placed within the public domain, even though they are within the path of glide approved by the Civil Aeronautics Authority.
(d) Flights of aircraft over private land which are so low and frequent as to be a direct and immediate interference with the enjoyment and use of the land are as much an appropriation of the use of the land as a more conventional entry upon it.
Streisand's case was about oblique handheld camera photos of her property taken from airspace above public property (the Pacific Ocean). I think a drone looking in her window would be viewed differently.
Back in the days when I was becoming a learned grasshopper I was instructed by a couple professors (PLS's) that the ownership extended from the center of the earth to the heavens above. I can build a 90 ft high fence if zoning will let me (seeking donations for the fence to the big guy, and bring your drill rig... 😉
I've always maintained that concept in my career. Example, the neighbors 36" Oak has a big branch over the line. Who gets to cut that branch off before it fall on my guys garage, shed or dune buggy? Who has the responsibility to repair said garage, shed, dune buggy?
I'd be getting my chain saw out and sending the bill to the neighbors homeowner insurance company. At least I still have my garage, shed, now just a quad. But that's just me, and I do have some very qualified experience with chain saws and have no problem PO'ing off the neighbor (especially if their cats poop in my yard)
How high? I'm about 3,800 ft here in Meadview. Just enjoying this global warming at around 75 deg. Nice for now and the 10 day forecast looks good too, but it may get different before we see our equinox.
cheers leggers
The first blast is a warning shot, if they dare make a return, its on.
I had a discussion with a guy from the local airport years ago about a crop duster that would come right over my house at tree top level every morning at sunlight.
Those darn things are loud and it was really making SWMBO very upset cause she gets to sleep around 3am at the earliest.
Trying to get them to honor the 500ft rule was wasted air.
They claimed because the pilot was carrying a full payload, he had the right to fly as low as possible.
During the first gulf war, it was not uncommon for an Airforce transport plane to come over at treetop level from most any direction and the same for nearly any type of Military helicopter and a few jets running in single formation on their way to and from the military depot just across the river and lake to the north.
Well.... being as I've had a couple beers and I don't do drugs, my short answer would be "not very high".
Oh wait! Sorry. 😀
Doesn't the FAA regulate that sort of thing?
They dam sure do when it comes to model rocketry.
Good thing the NTSB doesn't mess with model railroading else I'd have several dozen open cases right now. 🙂
Not to bad, want me to drive!
