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Hold the steel fence posts? or Ignore them? (Appology for a surveying related post, during all the other activities!)

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FL/GA PLS
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Posted by: @nate-the-surveyor

IF I accept them, then it falls apart.

By how much? I'm sure you have overlaid the found stuff and wiggled it all over the math model but it is still unacceptably off? ?????ÿ


 
Posted : August 28, 2020 8:05 pm
Mark Mayer
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If the original surveyor set wood stakes, those would be the original monuments. T-posts set by the land owner would have naturally been beside the wood stakes by some amount. I'd say that any solution that put the mathematical corner locations within a foot or so of the t-posts would be a justifiable solution that honors the t-posts for what they are.?ÿ

I agree with those that have said that if you are going to treat some of the t-posts as monuments you should treat all of them as such. But?ÿ when we find a monument set many years before, especially where there is no apparent occupation line, how do we know that monument is in the same position it was originally set? Well, we really don't. So if we have a batch of monuments that fit dimensions well, and a few outliers, we might exercise a little discretion and call those outliers disturbed. They may very easily be. There is little to be gained by standing on principle and altering the record dimensions of some unoccupied Arkansas woodland acreage by 2 feet.?ÿ ?ÿ

Another thing to consider. The dignity of monuments comes from the idea that buyers see the monuments and make their purchase in reliance upon them. These are t-posts in the woods. Maybe the buyers are blissfully unaware of their presence, or, if the are, of their significance. If that is the case maybe the mathematical dimensions and areas should carry more weight.?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ

?ÿ


 
Posted : August 28, 2020 9:03 pm
ken-salzmann
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@mark-mayer - coming to this late, Mr. Mayer pretty much said what I came up with too -

Ken


 
Posted : August 29, 2020 3:46 am
bill93
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In a post somewhere in the middle of this thread, I think Nate said some of the posts are line posts, not near corners. Did the original surveyor set them? Did the developer set them? Did they legally put a bend tn the lines?


 
Posted : August 29, 2020 7:27 am
dave-karoly
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@bill93

it seems the original surveyor set line points within view of the road. Some of these are too far back so may have been eyeballed further back by the landowner.


 
Posted : August 29, 2020 8:47 am

dave-karoly
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You have 3 legal issues:

1) original monuments in position or acceptable evidence of their original location holds.

2) notwithstanding that, in the absence of knowledge of the location of the boundary the land owners may MUTUALLY establish it. Whether this happened is a somewhat tricky question and depends on how heavy and obvious the consequent possession of the land is in the absence of direct and compelling testimony. This seems to support the idea that the t-posts out of view of the road are mere witnesses and donƒ??t precisely control.

3) any given boundary is independent of all others once established. Plat geometry is useful in the case of lost boundaries but does not control established boundaries.


 
Posted : August 29, 2020 8:55 am
thebionicman
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@nate-the-surveyor

When you say the rear posts 'may have been set by 'chaining along the river' do you mean at the time of subdivision? If done later they could be evaluated differently. If done at platting they are original.

I would put some good effort into finding the origin. If it can't be determined then the owners must be involved in the solution. Avoid any temptation to impose an answer if you can't support it with evidence, even if it seems reasonable. This is where the professional part starts. Help the owners solve the problem.

Good luck


 
Posted : August 29, 2020 10:07 am
jules-j
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How do the adjacent lots fit?


 
Posted : August 29, 2020 10:29 am
jules-j
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I'm sorry Nate. Went back and read more of your findings. We all hate surveys like this. Seems simple at first glance. But the demons show up. I've had my fair share.?ÿ


 
Posted : August 29, 2020 8:32 pm
nate-the-surveyor
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I had to stop deliberating, and set corners. I decided it was 52/48, and held them. If Mr G W got em within a foot, (mostly), or 2.5' in 700', and the land owner/developer set t posts there, or close, it's time to hold em, because they had the AUTHORITY, and authority holds over technique, or method.

Thank you all who responded.

Nate


 
Posted : August 30, 2020 4:00 pm

nate-the-surveyor
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I will add, I also concluded that I'd have regrets either way.?ÿ

So, I'd have 2% less regrets via yielding to them. Regrets are inevitable. Less is better in this department.

Thank you,

Nate


 
Posted : August 30, 2020 4:06 pm
a-harris
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I have followed many of my own surveys and many more of others and when I go back, many things are not in the same place as I placed them and where I found them the first time.

Many times line posts have been moved from online to where my traverse hubs were, I say were because they drove the post down over the 60d nails.

When I can find original monuments, I use them and make the in between ones work with proration and thru the middle I mark a straight line even if my straight line does not line up with the various uncalled for stakes in between.

0.02


 
Posted : August 30, 2020 4:33 pm
jules-j
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Posted by: @nate-the-surveyor

I will add, I also concluded that I'd have regrets either way.?ÿ

So, I'd have 2% less regrets via yielding to them. Regrets are inevitable. Less is better in this department.

Thank you,

Nate

You've made the best call for what's out there Nate. Been there done that, and have never been called out because of it. I think we as surveyors feel the stress upon ourselves. I've done many I just knew a call was forthcoming. Nothing! All we can do is locate the evidence, make the call and move on. I call it finding everything someone else could use against me. It's not your problem Nate. You went far beyond what a normal person would go. You're just the messenger. May the Lord be with you.?ÿ


 
Posted : August 30, 2020 5:29 pm
true-corner
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@thebionicman "...math is irrelevant." Good post!


 
Posted : August 30, 2020 10:26 pm
MightyMoe
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@paden-cash

Got 2/3" of an inch yesterday, hadn't had any of significance for over a month. Turned off my lawn watering system for at least the work week.?ÿ

?ÿ


 
Posted : August 31, 2020 11:37 am

kevinfoshee
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@nate-the-surveyor

I've always felt like found monuments make fewer enemies than set monuments.

Tough call, but, I promise to do likewise if I get a job in that subdivision ?????ÿ


 
Posted : August 31, 2020 12:03 pm
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